16 replies to this topic

[MailableRumble]

I play 4/8 hold em (and I'm guilty of playing 3/6 as well). Consistently I'm getting beat by terrible players who play anything suited. I have no problem getting beat by someone who goes in with a weak hand, but if every flop regardless of any raising has a couple of these players, they just seem bound to bust me.This question isn't about my leaks (so please don't say if I lose at 4/8, I'm going to lose at 6/12), but does play get a little tighter at 6/12? I'm tired of losing to people who really don't understand poker, but come to the casino to have some fun and play a LOT of hands. I want to play against people who actually ponder why is this person raising or why is he just limping in. I do have the bank roll for 6/12, but not 10/20 which is the next step up at my local casino.Thanks

[JFarrell20]

I assume it doesn't improve much. Maybe 5% at most. There are so many limits, that it's just not feasible to say that players are 5%+ better at the next increment. What does Daniel play... 4K/8K? He's great and all but there's just no way he had to improve more than 5% at each level he played before getting to 4k/8k.

[wrto4556]

I know you don't want to hear it, but if you lose at 4/8 you'll lose at 6/12.Yes, with the increase of limits, skill rises. And skilled players will beat you worse than retards with martinis...

[KramitDaToad]

Every Casino/Cardroom is going to have a different skill level for the same limit, but within any Casino/Cardroom is generaly safe to say that tables will get tighter and opponents more skilled as you go up in limits.So for your envirionment, go watch a few hands.You should be able to work it out yourself fairly quickly.

[MailableRumble]

I actually do very well at 4/8. I typically lose my winnings though to very very bad hands and it seems to happen more and more because most of the other players will play anything suited regardless of position or raises. Yes over the long haul they will lose money, but for the short haul, they are winning my money.

[UglyJimStudly]

If you're getting beat the way you say, then over the long haul you should still make money - such is the nature of odds and the law of large numbers. So if you're not, then there's some problem with your game that you need to identify.A lot of players seem to believe that they need to play against better competition in order to win more. That seems kinda muddled to me; pretty much by definition, the bad players are the ones you should be able to beat. It's quite possible to post losing sessions against bad players - I had a bad night last night playing low-limit, when it seemed the only time I hit a hand was when one of the many calling stations at my table hit a bigger hand - but over the long run I beat that sort of game and come out ahead.

[MailableRumble]

My original question was just about play as you go up in the limits, I don't care about the long haul or odds.Thanks for the comments.

[EJ333]

The skill level almost always goes up as the limits increase. However, there are often games at a higher limit that have poor players. It just depends. For the most part you have fewer people seeing the flop and craftier play.I would have to agree with wrto though. If you are not beating a 4-8 game, then you shouldn't really consider moving up. Also, sometime the pots in a loose, agressive 4-8 game can be nearly as big as a a tight 8-16 table. Of course you will get sucked out on more often at the lower limits. You can't do much about this except play your premium cards agrressively. Eventually, you will be raking some of those meaty pots.

[Smasharoo]

The move from 10/20 to 20/40 is the most noticable skill level change in most rooms.

[MailableRumble]

I'll probably move up to 6/12 just to see what it's like for a few sessions. I was talking to a guy the other day who plays both and says 6/12 you have less people being calling stations to the river, which is what kills me most. Obviously, mistakes are going to be that much more costly. Case in point: I was playing 4/8 yesterday, my table image is pretty tight. In the few hours of play, I have only raised with bullets twice, pocket tens, and A/K (all in good position). I raise with A/10 suited on the button, sb comes in, and OTG. Flop is A, 8 2 rainbow. Checks to me, I raise, SB calls, OTG re-raises, I re-raise. Either I'm beat here with a/2 or he is just feeling me out. Turn is a blank, OTG bets, I raise, sb folds. River is a 9, we both check, he has 8's and 9's for 2 pair. That is the type of play that keeps getting me. I don't mind getting beat by play like that once in a while, but when you have 2 to 3 people with those types of hands calling to the river every hand, it's hard to keep your money. Thanks

[holman3rd]

MailableRumble said:

I'll probably move up to 6/12 just to see what it's like for a few sessions.  I was talking to a guy the other day who plays both and says 6/12 you have less people being calling stations to the river, which is what kills me most.  Obviously, mistakes are going to be that much more costly.  

Wow, I love calling stations. They play far too many hands and take them far to far against me. That spells $$$$$.I was playing 4/8 at the Bike the other night and this one loose/passive guys sits down with just $40. He turned it into $250 in about an hour by limping and calling to the river with 42, 52, 74 and 32. He either hit a straight or flush on all of them. Three of them were played UTG.Fortunately, I wasn't involved in any of these hands, but my point in telling you this is that I smiled inside at the growing size of his stack. I knew that he'd eventually donate it, hopefully mostly to me.Unfortunately, he did a hit and run, and left the table after about 2 hours. Probably the smartest thing he did all night.But, I can understand your frustation. It's hard losing nice pots to bad beats. I've worked really hard to get my emotions under control when this happens, and just look at the bright side--that they played incorrectly, and that's a good thing over the long term.

[MailableRumble]

Unless you are a a table of 5 of them and they keep hitting and hitting and hitting.

[holman3rd]

MailableRumble said:

Unless you are a a table of 5 of them and they keep hitting and hitting and hitting.

Nope, I want 9 of them at my 10-handed table. Would you prefer a table of 5 calling stations/4 experts/and you?Calling stations are goooooooooooood.Not only do they put money in when they have the worst of it (good for you), but they also tend to:1) Play passively, which is good for you b/c you can loosen up a bit and see the turn/river usually very cheaply or for free, which enables you to hit more of your draws. You'll get to see more flops cheaply which gives YOU the opportunity to get lucky on the flop. I'm not saying play any 2 cards like the fish do, but you can open up your starting standards a bit in the right situations (e.g., late position, lots of limpers before you).2) Wake up and play more aggressively when they have something strong---very easy to read here.

[UglyJimStudly]

MailableRumble said:

My original question was just about play as you go up in the limits, I don't care about the long haul or odds.

If you don't care if you can win, why worry about how strong the play is? All that matters is whether you can afford to keep on buying chips over however long a haul you plan to play.Again, I don't understand the reasoning behind looking for more skilled players: if you can't beat a table full of calling stations, what makes you think you can beat a table of people who think about their game? Taking a bash to the bankroll is a harsh way to learn, but ignoring the lesson is just going to result in more bashes.

[Shred]

Agreed that different casinos/cardrooms may be different meaning one casino's 3-6 is another's 6-12 but generally the playing style is different. Those loose passive callers are not as common the more you go up. The number of pre-flop callers in say a 2-4 game can be ridiculous so the main strategy is usually patience rather than skillful tactics. As you move up you'll need to adjust your play. That goes to for someone who routinely plays 20-40 and jumps down to 3-6, they'll have to adjust accordingly. So is the play better from say a 3-6 to a 5-10? You could say yes, but I think a small jump in limits like that is just a change in play but they should all be pretty soft and beatable. Jumping from 4-8 to 20-40 is a different story.

[Smasharoo]

I'll probably move up to 6/12 just to see what it's like for a few sessions. I was talking to a guy the other day who plays both and says 6/12 you have less people being calling stations to the river, which is what kills me most.No, it's what makes you most of your money.Time to realize that.Do you know where I make most of my money? People moving up in limits because they don't like being called to the river with middle pair.

[chapmanlaw]

Maybe your cardrooms are different, but at the Bike, it does not matter what limit you play at, hald the table chases with nothing. Simple pots odd, no matter what limit, forces some calls. I play in the 30-60 and 40-80 at the Bike and it is like a 4-8 game except the players know when to throw away and when to re-raise. I can't remeber how many times it was capped preflop and there were 5 or 6 players in the hand. It's great because there is almost a 1000 in the pot, but you don't feel so good with A-A with all those players. You have to take advantage of the river rats and in the long haul, they will thicken your wallet.