not sure if i overplayed this, big 2/4 pot

[akishore 0]

2/4 ring at foxwoodsi'm MP/LP with K J .two EP players limp in, and i raise. an old gambler-type woman (100% vp$ip) three-bets in the CO, and i think she'd do this with any pocket pair and any suited ace, plus some others. the small blind who is loose (but nowhere near as stupid and retardedly loose as the woman and the BB) cold-calls 2.5 SB, and the BB (complete maniac who caps a lot of hands preflop, some blind) caps it cold. i don't know if he's looked at his hand. the first EP limper calls and the second folds, i call, the woman calls and the SB calls.(21 SB) 8 6 5 the SB bets out. he is generally passive and extremely straightforward, though he has done some strange plays twice (raised on the river with like fourth pair, and bet/folded the river once). the maniac BB raises, and he does this all day with any two cards that he capped it cold. both EP limpers fold. the woman forgets i have cards and calls before i've acted.i'm getting 26-to-2 and almost always exactly 27-to-2 (the SB will almost never three-bet unless he flopped a straight). do you call?i called, the woman had already called, and the SB called.(14 BB) 5 the SB bets out again. this can mean that he has trips, but it can also just mean that he has any pair. he stops-and-go's EVERY single hand that he's in. never ever "checks to the raiser". the BB just calls. this always means he has overcards or hasn't looked at his hand. i'm getting 16-to-1, this is an obvious call. the woman behind me calls.(18 BB) K the SB bets out again. the maniac BB raises. this means he hit the king most likely, but not always (he easily does this with air, and he has raised the river then folded in a big pot to one more reraise when he finally looks at his hand, so i don't know exactly what that means).i'm getting 21-to-2. do you call?i thought for a while and cold-called. the woman folded. the SB three-bet. tim was sweating me out, and i had told him earlier that the SB dude is fairly passive. specifically, i told him "if he three-bets, watch out--you're in trouble." but, like i said, the SB has done a couple of retarded things, and if he has 8-6, for example, i don't know if he realizes that any king beats him now. anyway, the BB calls the three-bet.i'm getting 26-to-1. do you call?i thought this one was genuinely close, but i always tend to err on the side of calling in these huge pots. it would grossen me to death to fold the best hand here versus two overplayed (and one possibly blind) hand.aseem

[SuicideKing86 0]

What were you doing after the flop? :? You need runner-runner for a flush, if you catch your K I dont think it would be good. I say someone hit 2 pair at least and probably a set in there too. Screw pot odds, would you call that with 72 off because of the odds?

[KDawgCometh 2]

this is fine. Live 2/4 is donktacular, you very could well have the best hand here on the river, and folding in a pot this big is a massive mistake

[looshle 6]

How often do you go down there Aseem? Im there like 4 times a week now.

[Sushiman 0]

I fold the flop. I'm likely beat, all I have are possibly dirty over cards and a backdoor flush draw, and there are numerous cards which put four to a straight on the board which could leave me drawing dead. I don't think I can call two bets profitably here. I wouldn't fold the river here, but I don't think the flop call was good.

[monoatomic 0]

we should get a Foxwoods night going for the eastern FCP. I am down there almost every sunday night.As for the hand...I'd probably dump the flop, but the rest is peachy.

[akishore 0]

backdoor flush is usually clean... give it 1.5 outs.overs are a little dirty, but we have no reason to think they're as dirty as people are saying they are. i'm up against a maniac... remember? give them maybe 2.5 outs.with 4 total partial outs, i should call getting better than 13-to-1, shouldn't i?aseem

[akishore 0]

i've been to foxwoods just twice, both times with econ_tim and chief (both FCP'ers).we live in boston, so we take a greyhound up. two hour ride, $25 round trip. so we can't go every weekend. both times, we've gone on a friday night, but i'd like to start going on saturday mornings instead. the waitlists on friday nights are just ridiculous, and i think the play is just as bad and maybe worse on saturday mornings.aseem

[looshle 6]

I'm usually down there on Friday nights but I'm leaving for the week on monday so I probably won't be back down there until next weekend.I'm at the 5/10 tables most of the time, with a few trips up to 10/20.When a 5/10 table is loose enough it usually ends up a 10/20 game because of the kill, but cheaper to play each round.

[akishore 0]

i have to be careful for obvious reasons... :wink: aseem

[mrdannyg 274]

i think if you're calling to the river, you're on the assumption that the overcards are not dirty, which means you definitely call all the river bets. if you cannot call the river bets, your call on the flop is incorrect.i think the latter, but if you do call the flop, i definitely think you're stuck for those bets on the river.daniel

[Abbaddabba 0]

I think you're overestimating the value of your over cards.

[KDawgCometh 2]

I think you're overestimating the value of your over cards.

I think you're overestimating the piss poor skill of the opponents. Seriously, I played the foxwoods 5/10 like 18 months ago, and some of the shit you'd see there would make your eyes bug out at how bad the play was. I also played in a god awful NYC club 4/8 game last week, and if I had more cash on me, I would've stayed there til the club closed.Aseem, considering the level of play and pot size, I will reiterate, you played this fine

[Abbaddabba 0]

I think you're overestimating the piss poor skill of the opponents.

Quite possibly. I havent had the luxery of playing at a 2/4 table where it gets capped in a 4-5 way pot someone doesnt have my KJ dominated (or kings/aces which make them effectively trash). Well, not recently.

[Sushiman 0]

Terrible opponents means you get value from calling more and jamming your good hands. It does not change the fact that the cards in your hand are marginal at best given the flop. Aseem is not going to outplay his opponents here by pulling any higher level thinking or metagame nonsense....he pure and simply needs to get lucky, especially with a passive player betting into him and a maniac on his right making everything expensive.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Obviously he has to get "lucky" in the sense that it's improbable that he'll win. When he does though, it pays big. Measuring how much you win relative to the what you're calling is the issue.Terrible opponents also make huge pots with marginal hands, like in this one.The only discouraging thing for me is that it's the rock that lead out on the flop meaning a LOT of the time your overcards are no good versus two pair or a flopped straight. Once you call those two bets though, there's no turning back.

[akishore 0]

The only discouraging thing for me is that it's the rock that lead out on the flop

??where are you getting this??aseem

[Breaking Liberty 0]

If you trust in your reads enough of your opponents that you feel hitting one of your overs may be good than I don't see anything wrong with how you played the hand. If your opponents are that bad to warrant this type of play, big pots like these are the ones you want to be making them in. I guess I'd fold the river if it was capped back to me(but maybe not, I'd have to be in the hand to say so for sure), but for one more, hell no.