7 replies to this topic

[akishore]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxfirst hand at the table, no reads.Preflop: Hero is BB with 7:club:, 8:club:. 1 fold, ...1. how good/bad? i routinely make this sort of cold-call and i've always wondered if it was a leak.on one hand, these types of hands tend to win big pots. on the other hand, i might often flop something marginal like middle pair and have the odds to continue (badly). i felt that it was very likely my opponents had big pairs or big cards, so i would know the good flops from the bad fairly easily.of course, that all goes to hell when the flop gives me a really marginal hand. ... UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.Flop: (20 SB) 5:heart:, 9:diamond:, T:heart: (5 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, ...2. how good/bad? i'm getting 27-to-3 or 9-to-1.i obviously have no heart, but i don't think i have enough reason to believe that i'm necessarily up against a flush draw (killing two of my outs). also, a J that gives me a straight also gives KQ a straight (and gives a redraw to any Q-x or K-x).on the other hand, this pot is huge, and i'm almost never drawing completely *dead*.... UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.Turn: (17 BB) 6:heart: (5 players)Hero bets, ...3. how good/bad? is checkraising better? check/calling maybe??at the time, i REALLY didn't want to risk it getting checked around. i felt that such a thing would be hugely disastrous.if i'm raised, i'm never three-betting and i'm just calling down.aseem

[WonderfulSplash]

I think calling preflop is a leak. The flop is close but I lean towards a call getting those odds.

[screech]

Preflop call is no good. Calling 2sbs really cuts down on your implied odds.Flop call is good.I don't think the turn will get checked through given the flop action. I really don't know what's better on the turn. Leading out may trap everyone. Then again, you're rarely getting raised by something less than a flush.I think the c/r on the turn would be best.

[akishore]

screech said:

Preflop call is no good. Calling 2sbs really cuts down on your implied odds.

i'm not sure this is correct.while i'm putting in double the money that i'd be putting in limping, i think it's very fair to say that i'd be getting more than double the money postflop when i hit, than i would in a normal smaller pot (since i'm up against big hands that will be raising and three-betting freely).aseem

[Mattnxtc]

preflop is loose...id call one raise but 2 is pushing it a little to farflop: well getting 9-1 you really only had 3 "clean outs. A jack allows for a higher straight and the 6 of hearts puts 3 hearts on the board. That being said i likely would make the call. turn: well you made ur straight but the flush is out there now. I dont know if you made any notes on who plays suited cards but you could be dead in the water. Turn play i dont mind just a check call on the turn. I would want to see where the betting is coming from. Otherwise just pray a 2 of clubs hits

[thecamelot]

WonderfulSplash said:

I think calling preflop is a leak. The flop is close but I lean towards a call getting those odds.

I'd agree.. I was told calling KQ in the SB to 1 raise is a leak, how can 2 bets with 78s be correct, also not closing the action?What am I missing here?

[screech]

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i'm not sure this is correct.

You're absolutely right Aseem.With 4 opponents already in, I think you can expect a large enough pot at the end of the hand to give you the correct implied odds.Let's assume that half the time preflop gets capped. That means you are putting in 2.5SB preflop. Assuming you need 10:1 implied odds to make the call profitable, that means that the pot needs to end up around 25SB to make your call profitable. 4 of your opponents have already put in 2.5SB each, so that means there only needs to be 15SB put in from the flop to the river. With 4 opponents already in who clearly like their hands, I think there will be enough bets/raises to make your preflop call profitable.Good call. :-)

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I was told calling KQ in the SB to 1 raise is a leak, how can 2 bets with 78s be correct, also not closing the action?  What am I missing here?

Implied odds vs. Reverse implied odds.KQ will often be dominated in this hand, given the PF action. It does not play well multiway. You will frequently make the second best hand and end up paying through the nose.Your opponents are less likely to have an 8 or a 7. Also, 87s suited makes more straights and makes more flushes than KQo. It plays much better multiway.

[Sysvr4]

The quick count tells me you're getting 13.5:2 or basically 7:1 on your preflop call with the assumption that everyone behind you calls (and they will).I don't have a problem with it... a little loose? Sure, but in a big multiway pot you're getting the proper implied odds to make it. By the pot count on the flop, it looks like UTG rereaised tho? Flop and turn look fine, too.Jeff