a fun, semi-standard hand i want to dissect

[akishore 0]

5/10 ringi post in MP somewhere and get 7 5 .first hand, so no reads.EP limps, ..., i check, ..., SB raises, BB calls, EP calls, i ...of course i chose to call in this hand and thought it was a pretty easy call, but just wondering if others disagree.to be continued...aseem

[Abbaddabba 0]

Position on everyone coupled with paying half value preflop should be reason to call a large variety of hands. The fact that there's an EP limper makes it more difficult. 5/7 off is pretty borderline, but i call with any two suited cards. If there was no EP limper, i would literally call with anything assuming the BB folded....unless the SB was a particularly strong player, or had a particularly low PFR%age.

[econ_tim 0]

If there was no EP limper, i would open raise with anything

OK. So you saw the flop. What next?

[speedz99 145]

What happened to not posting in early or mid position?

[akishore 0]

hey abbaddabba, the EP limper shouldn't make much of a difference. he can easily be a fish. besides, it's not like his hand makes my hand suck--someone raised out of the small blind! he most likely has an overpair to my hand, and if EP has AJ or QT or something, it makes no difference to me.tim, i think open-raising with any two when you're in MP (if you posted) is a little too loose. you can do it in the CO because you'd steal from there anyway with a wide range of hands, but now it costs less for more. here, i have a lot of people acting behind me.speedz, that's not me... you're thinking of screech. aseem

[Abbaddabba 0]

If there was no EP limper, i would open raise with anything

OK. So you saw the flop. What next?

Yeah, good point. I was looking at it from the perspective of having already checked.

[econ_tim 0]

What happened to not posting in early or mid position?

posting in MP is OK. Just don't do it in EP. If you post in MP3, then you get to see 5 hands for 1SB as opposed to the normal 10 hands for 1.5SB, so it's actually a small discount.

[econ_tim 0]

tim, i think open-raising with any two when you're in MP (if you posted) is a little too loose.

It depends where you're posting from. If it's the hijack, then go ahead and raise. That's what 2 off the button is for.

[Abbaddabba 0]

hey abbaddabba, the EP limper shouldn't make much of a difference. he can easily be a fish. besides, it's not like his hand makes my hand suck--someone raised out of the small blind! he most likely has an overpair to my hand, and if EP has AJ or QT or something, it makes no difference to me.

Well, that's true and it isn't.It's true that if UTG limps, SB is likely to have an overpair or something where UTG's hand won't have much of an impact on our own.BUTIf UTG didn't limp, that also means that the SB is apt to raise with a LOT of hands that he wouldnt with if UTG _did_ limp. From his perspective, he see's one full big bet of dead money and no one who's voluntarily put a dime in that pot. He could do this with almost anything without an EP limper.

[speedz99 145]

So, to the OP, obviously it's a call closing the action.What's next?

[akishore 0]

lol, i've posted UTG in a five-handed game before, probably multiple times.i don't think it makes any significant difference. it actually helps me establish a crazy table image right from the getgo, but this is game-dependent.aseem

[akishore 0]

5/10 ring i post in MP somewhere and get 7 5 . first hand, so no reads. EP limps, ..., i check, ..., SB raises.(8 SB) 8 7 5 SB betsraise right away, or wait for a good turn?aseem

[speedz99 145]

I say call, for two reasons:1. to wait for a good turn (less chance of being outdrawn/bigger bet)2. to induce another bet on the turn that hopefully EP will call before you raise it upPretty standard?

[Abbaddabba 0]

I dont like waiting.It's not so much that you're waiting for a good turn as you're waiting for him NOT to see a bad turn. The problem is that there are too many BAD turns that can completely kill the action you would get from hands that are way behind you. Any 6, 9, 4 or diamond probably kills the action. That's nearly half the deck.Hope he has an overpair and let him 3bet, and you can do a stop 'n go or call down if the turn is scary. If he has overcards, you at best make .5 big bets more by letting him lead the turn and fold to your raise, instead of raising the flop and having him call and check/fold the turn UI.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I'd raise right away. SB likely 3-bets an overpair, and may not lead the turn with overs. And with only three opponents seeing the flop, you may not be up against any straight or flush draws anyway.

[screech 0]

raise right away, or wait for a good turn?

Wait for turn.

[rog 0]

besides, it's not like his hand makes my hand suck--

You dont need his hand to make yours suck...it already does. I dont play the limits you play, but I prefer a fold here.

[Actuary 3]

fold preflop.You don't call with 75 off from BB if UTG raises, right? and 2 others callers.Don't say relative pos or whatever..just fold preflop.Fish.

[screech 0]

Don't say relative pos or whatever

Relative position. :-) We also have the button.We also have cards that are unlikely to be dominated.It's a thin call, but probably won't cost anything.Oh yeah, Stop posting in MP :wink:

[Sysvr4 0]

I'll go ahead and raise the flop. Two reasons:1) equity2) for information on the turnWhat I mean by (2) is that if you raise that flop, more than likely they will check to you on the turn. If you get c/r'ed on a scary turn, I think you're drawing to 4 outs and can decide accordingly from there. If you don't raise the flop, obviously raise any non-scary turn.Jeff

[screech 0]

I'll go ahead and raise the flop.  Two reasons:1) equity2) for information on the turnWhat I mean by (2) is that if you raise that flop, more than likely they will check to you on the turn.  If you get c/r'ed on a scary turn, I think you're drawing to 4 outs and can decide accordingly from there.  If you don't raise the flop, obviously raise any non-scary turn.Jeff

That's putting in a lot of money when you don't really need to.There are 27 good cards that can come on the turn and 20 scare cards. Our two pair is somewhat of an illusion - our equity is not that high on this co-ordinated board. If a bad card comes, and the action on the turn goes bet-raise, we can get away from the hand cheaply. If a good card comes, we can raise a bet from SB for Be patient.On the other hand, if a good card comes, SB will likely bet again and we can raise for value with a much bigger edge. Waiting for the turn allows us to win the most and lose the least.

[Briguy 0]

Wait for turn. Bottom two, coordinated board, your equity is way, way higher on a safe turn than on this flop.