14 replies to this topic

[akishore]

post some hand histories. give more details, etc.do you play limit, or NL? what stakes?one thing i can guess is that your tournament style carries over into your cash play. they're very different styles.in tournaments, you want to usually take pots down quickly, and you want to be more aggressive when you're the aggressor and more cautious when you're not.in cash games, however, only long-term results count. even if you know you're behind in the hand, you think long-term. if you have a draw that you'll hit 1 in 3 times and the pot is offering you 4-1, call and raise for value because only the long term matters. it doesn't matter if you build up the flop and never hit and lose a decent pot, because in the long run, you will show a bigger profit.more details will help.aseem

[akishore]

with NL, it usually is a good idea to protect your profits when you triple (maybe even double) your stack. leave and find another table (usually you can't enter the same table with less money than you left with).one of your problems, even though you may not realize it, is that you probably subconsciously change your playing style when you get a big stack. maybe you get overly aggressive or loosen up even more. or maybe the other players get accustomed to your loose/aggressive style and capitalize big time when they get a big hand. for all of these reasons, your suggestion is probably a good one--leave when you triple your stack.you might want to also spend some time learning fixed limit. it's a lot more consistent (admittedly a lot slower, and requiring a lot more patience and discipline, and more of a science than an art like NL), an the swings are much smaller.a loose style also contributes to bigger swings. if you tighten up, your swings will be smaller but your win rate will probably decrease. it's all personal preference--if you find your loose style is your best style, keep doing it, but protect your profits like you mentioned.hope this helps,aseem

[akishore]

here's the thing...if you get good enough to really understand your opponents, there's no reason to leave. BUT, it's a lot safer and easier to leave after you get paid off, because you don't have to worry about the same opponent at another table.what i mean is that if you have the ability to change gears multiple times in a game (go from loose to tight to loose, go from straightforward aggressive to tricky slowplaying, etc.), and if you have the ability to really get into the minds of your opponents, you can wreak havoc. it's how the pros beat all the games.when you start loose and show some bluffs, you set an impression. your opponents think you are a fish who bluffs too much, so you change gears and play a monster aggressively, and you double up. you've got that part down pat. if you don't want to leave, change gears again. bluff more liberally the next few hands, but not for too much of your stack. when you get caught, change gears again--get paid off again.i bet your problem is that after you change gears the first time and get paid off, you stop changing. this makes you more predictable in a way. if you can know what your oppoenents are thinking of you, there's no need to leave the table.admittedly, it's a lot easier to, so i would suggest you do (and i would do the same), until you get to the professional level where you can change gears comfortably and manipulate your table image masterfully.so in short, yes, leave after 15 minutes when you get paid off huge, for now. :-) hope this helps,aseem

[bsabres81]

Akishore wrote,

Quote

with NL, it usually is a good idea to protect your profits when you triple (maybe even double) your stack. leave and find another table (usually you can't enter the same table with less money than you left with).

This advice goes against anything ever written on poker. The general feeling is that if you are having success at a table, you should stay there until the game gets bad or your play begins to weaken. Having said that, I don't think this is terrible advice, if your play changes once you amass a hefty portion of chips.Remember, people protect their chips more in tournaments than cash games. Thus, they are willing to gamble with more hands in bad situations. Eventually you will be outdrawn or outplayed. If you have a problem with this, and if you cannot fold big hands from time to time, Akishore's advice is probably good for you. I would not recommend this to the average player, however.I would also add that you may want to give limit a try if this continues to be a problem.

[akishore]

well, i agree completely if the game is limit--don't leave if the game is good, regardless of whether you're losing or winning.i find in NL, however, that the risk increases with chips, and online, i find it better to leave the table once i've made a decent profit, rather than lose half your stack on a coin flip all-in, for example.i realize it's not really a correct philosophy in terms of conventional poker wisdom, but i find that it works well for me (e.g. it decreases my swings). and you're right, if you start playing differently with a bigger stack (for the worse), it's also a good idea to leave.aseem

[hotdog da 2rd]

Yeshua_Won said:

I am a loose aggressive player most of the time.I always lose more to the bad player because I forget how dumb they are.

trust me, the guy taking ur money is not as dumb as he looks.

[randomization]

All the writing that tells you that you shouldn't hit and run is oriented towards limit holdem, because the real rule is "don't leave the table when you still have an advantage." In limit holdem, your advantage usually doesn't depend on your stack size, while in NL holdem, few factors are more important than your stack size-every decision depends on it. An ideal player would never be harmed by having a big stack, but even some successful professional players don't like to play a big stack, so what would happen to the ideal player is not always what matters.

[JFarrell20]

Yeshua_Won said:

My tournament game is pretty strong. But, my cash game is horrible.Why is that?What am I missing?

The thrill of "winning" a contest.

[jayboogie]

I can't see why you would want to hit and run with a big chip stack especially in a NL game. Your stack is an advantage, utilize it. Why would you play NL if your scared of losing your entire stack? I don't know about you, but I'd always want to be the big stack at the table, first of all it gives off the image that your winning, nobody attacks big stacks, they attack the short stacks. You will be able to bully the table around with the most chips as well.

[randomization]

Jay, big stacks give opponents long implied odds, and they hurt you when you're playing big cards. For some people's styles of play, a big stack is a nightmare. It's not a matter of being scared of losing your entire stack, it's that the optimal strategy changes with a big stack, and some people are good or excellent at playing short or medium stacks, but bad at playing with deep money.

[jogsxyz]

Yeshua_Won said:

It only goes back 100 hands.

Many sites give hand histories up to 30 days. They are located on your desktop. You needn't be logged on to access them.ClickMy computerlocal disk (C:)program files'your poker' sitehand history'your site' IDdategame files