22 replies to this topic

[akishore]

it's 3 am right now, i'm in college, and i have a 10am class tomorrow. i was planning on going to sleep at 2am when i finished some work and got in an hour of poker, but then i saw that a 25c/50c omaha hi/lo table had filled up on prima poker (fixed limit omaha hi/lo exists but all the tables are usually empty)... how could i resist?! i get to play omaha hi/lo with such rare occurence because most people don't know the game.if you've never played omaha hi/lo, you are missing out. it is by far the biggest cash cow of all low limit poker games.EIGHT PEOPLE in a CAPPED POT... PREFLOP!!!and this is a regular occurence!!if you take the time to learn the game, these low limit tables are massively juicy, and if you just have the patience to wait for premium scooping hands, you can clean up so fast and so massively, it's not a joke. people don't realize that you haven't played a hand in two rounds because they play EVERY hand that's dealt to them for the most part.with hold'em, even fish have some ounce of discretion, e.g. 7-2 is a horrid hand. with omaha, the vast majority of casual players see potential in every hand without realizing that half the time their hands are dominated no matter what the board may come.as i write this, i just won a 20xBB pot with only the nut low!!! that's a frickin 40xBB pot!!!!! on the river, it was capped, and there was SIX PEOPLE in the CAPPED POT on the RIVER!! and no one got quartered!!!the other difference between omaha hi/lo and hold'em is that if you play well, the swings are MUCH smaller and your wins are MUCH greater. the basic strategy is to simply be super-aggressive with the nuts (nut high or nut low) and cautious with anything else. most of the time, the second-best hand will lose. that's the thing--a lot of fish don't realize that they're drawing dead to baby flushes or baby boats, etc.if the board is paired, the nuts are quads (unless you hold the best possible full house which would prevent the possibility of quads)... quads aren't uncommon! if the board contains 6-7-8, the nut low is 8-6-7-2-A, simple as that. if the board isn't paired, the nut is usually a flush or sometimes a straight--rarely is it a set or two pair!i HIGHLY recommend everyone take the time to learn this game, for it is massively fruitful to the serious student.aseem

[jaffa_cake]

Greetings from the other Cambridge across the pond. I found the 0.50/1 tables on party good as well. Basically if you can learn how to play the game and know what starting hands are good, you can make alot of money off these tables. What I think happens is holdem players get a bit bored, and try out omaha hilo at the lowest limits while they are still learning the game. They end up playing 3/4 of their hands preflop and you could class them as omaha fish. Unless they had played alot, fish would have no idea of the how valuable a hand like A23K double suited is. How much did you end up winning? You played for 2 hours right?jaffa

[akishore]

i completely agree! and i completely don't mind them getting bored, it helps my bankroll quite a bit. :-) i started playing about 2:45am eastern time (GMT -5), instead of going to bed. i'll probably be playing another hour or two, even though i should really go to sleep. how can i resist such a juicy game?!just an addition to your comments about the omaha fish. not only do they realize how valuable hands like AA23 DS or AK23 DS are, they also don't realize how not-valuable hands like 9933 or 6789 are (granted, the latter is a monster in omaha hi, but in hi/lo, it's very vulnerable to a bigger straight as well as a made low). they also don't understand concepts like the importance of the ace (in low limit games), or the importance of being suited or double-suited, or the importance of having hands that work both high and low.unfortunately, as i write this, the table is breaking down (down to 7 players now) as three of the laggers in the game have busted. i am up roughly 20xBB, in less than half an hour. it's too bad prima poker's omaha crowd isn't too big.so you say the scene at party is good. how about pokerstars? i am planning to deposit there sometime also because of the negreanu open, and if the omaha crowd is good, that'll be another reason.the table broke now, too bad. but 24 big bets in 25 minutes isn't too bad! 1 big bet a minute, huh? :-) aseem

[jaffa_cake]

Well I should have made money at the 0.50/1 hilo at party while I was playing 800 hands to work off my bonus, but I was up $30 and kind of got frustrated (lol) with all the fish winning, and blew it all off. The bonus made up for it though. I don't have real money in my account at stars yet - I guess I should because it's a good site. I might transfer some in time for the negreanu open on sunday. I don't really know what stars is like for low limit hilo, but I assume players are slightly better than at party. Good luck.jaffa

[TeeSludge]

The games at PokerStars are just as good, my friend.Last night I took down about 35bb in the 2/4 game in about 25 minutes. Two nice scoopers and I was in business.

[hotdog da 2rd]

wait till u play 10-20 to 30-60 later in life. my buddy and i likes making ham sandwishes lol.

[koolromeo]

the omaha hi lo at party is great. there are a ton of players at every limit from 5o cent $1.00 to $20 $40. you can 4 table if u want. i've just started learning this game because much of the reading i've done online says the hi lo games are where the easy money is and they seem to be right. i played it at a casino last week for the first time and won $400. i was playing 5-$10 with a full kill. these people just kept putting money in the pot. 6 plus players were taking the flop. it was great. the kill helps a lot. it creates more action and i won a $400 pot because i was the killer. i never would have seen the flop otherwise. there were a bunch of rich old ladies just pouring money into every pot. this game is easy to learn. i get less frustrated playing this than holdem. a hand like 10-3 o can easily take down pocket aces. not so easy in omaha hi lo. even though i never played before, i surveyed the table and could tell who was gonna get the chips and after 6 hours i was right on. me and 2 other guys each won $300 plus. the next day i played again, but the fish werent there. only 3 people were seeing the flop. i won $85 that day. i'm going back to the taj today because wed. is the day the old ladies come. one other thing i learned is that u shouldn't play a hi lo game in a casino at the 2-4 level. i've heard u can't beat the rake at low levels and i now believe. i had to play 2-4 one day because there was no 5-10 table. after 5 hours i was down $100 and looked around the table to see who was winning. well no one was winning. and we had people constantly rebuying. the reason was that they took out ten percent up to $4 a pot this is the same rake as the 5-10 kill game. since most pots were split, u were only clearing like $6 a pot. this doesn't pay for all the flops u see or the times u get rivered. online the rake doesn't kill u at the low levels. if u learn omaha hi lo and have extreme discipline, i think you will win more bb/hour if you are in a loose game, than a holdem loose game.

[Smasharoo]

O8 is much easier to learn to play well than Holdem. Bad players will struggle to have winning sessions playing O8, it's amazing they keep playing, really. Once you figure out the pre-flop standards and how important scooping/quartering/freerolling are it's definately an easy way to make money. Holdem's is by far the more intresting game tactically to me though. It's a lot more subtle.

[jayistheman]

ive played hi-lo a few times, but have only broken even... i would like to give it a shot, but dont want to go into it blind... anyone know of a good online strategy guide?

[JFarrell20]

AK double-suited is, I believe, the best starting hand, no?AAAA is horrid, throw it away.Anytime I get dealt three of a kind, I throw away pre-flop.Play high, double suited hands in 8 or better. A2suited AK suited is obviously very strong in hi/lo.

[akishore]

i'm working on a beginner's guide post in the omaha forum, it'll be up sometime today. check it out if you'd like.aseem

[Aburame Shino]

Omaha hi/lo is actually my game of choice, although I have been playing more Hold 'em as of late (don't know why, maybe feel like I need more practice). It's amazing the amount you can win if you have the patience to sit around and wait until you get dealt a killer hand.

[doublesuited]

in omaha high the best starting hand is actually AAQQ doublesuited. You will get paid off more when you make a flush than AAKK doublesuited. For O8, the best hand is AA23 doublesuited.

[srharris22]

i do think that most people that play primarily omaha hi would say that double suited AAj10 would be their favorite hand PREFLOP! Many more options vs AAKK or AAQQ even double suited. Those hands will flop sets about 25 percent of the time, but the AAJ10 gives you more outs for straights not just limiting you to the highest straight and you can have queen high or king high flushes calling or betting into you.4 double suited connectors around 7-Q would be a strong hand as well. something like 78910, or 89JQ (semiconnected). These hands can crack aces very easily and are easy to get away from. The suited cards are not really for hitting flushes(are there for back up) rather should be considered defensive flush cards ie you and you opponent both have 4 cards to a flush meaning there are 6 'hearts' between your hand and his hand. Well that just decreased the odds of you losing to a higher flush b/c there are only 7 hearts left in the deck vs 9.PS remember these are great hands PREFLOP! omaha is a post flop game, no one is a huge favorite preflop at best 60/40.

[srharris22]

i do think that most people that play primarily omaha hi would say that double suited AAj10 would be their favorite hand PREFLOP! Many more options vs AAKK or AAQQ even double suited. Those hands will flop sets about 25 percent of the time, but the AAJ10 gives you more outs for straights not just limiting you to the highest straight and you can have queen high or king high flushes calling or betting into you.4 double suited connectors around 7-Q would be a strong hand as well. something like 78910, or 89JQ (semiconnected). These hands can crack aces very easily and are easy to get away from. The suited cards are not really for hitting flushes(are there for back up) rather should be considered defensive flush cards ie you and you opponent both have 4 cards to a flush meaning there are 6 'hearts' between your hand and his hand. Well that just decreased the odds of you losing to a higher flush b/c there are only 7 hearts left in the deck vs 9.PS remember these are great hands PREFLOP! omaha is a post flop game, no one is a huge favorite preflop at best 60/40.

[Abbaddabba]

I'd be willing to bet it would be ridiculously easy to program an omaha hi/low bot for the low limit tables. Gold mine.

[doublesuited]

srharris22 said:

i do think that most people that play primarily omaha hi would say that double suited AAj10 would be their favorite hand PREFLOP!  Many more options vs AAKK or AAQQ even double suited.  Those hands will flop sets about 25 percent of the time, but the AAJ10 gives you more outs for straights not just limiting you to the highest straight and you can have queen high or king high flushes calling or betting into you.4 double suited connectors around 7-Q would be a strong hand as well.  something like 78910, or 89JQ (semiconnected).  These hands can crack aces very easily and are easy to get away from.  The suited cards are not really for hitting flushes(are there for back up) rather should be considered defensive flush cards ie you and you opponent both have 4 cards to a flush meaning there are 6 'hearts' between your hand and his hand.  Well that just decreased the odds of you losing to a higher flush b/c there are only 7 hearts left in the deck vs 9.PS remember these are great hands PREFLOP!  omaha is a post flop game, no one is a huge favorite preflop at best 60/40.

I limit omaha high where there are more multiway pots, I agree with you as well as in PLO games with very very deep stacks (250+ BB). In PLO games with more moderate stacks and more heads up situations I'll take AAKK or AAQQ.

[Rocketwadster]

I'm also from a Cambridge, which seems like a weird occurance. I love playing Omaha Hi/Lo, as it is very enjoyable and can be very profitable. However, I beleive that in this game, you will experience more bad beats than in any other form of poker, simply due to the fact that too many people have no concept of how to play in a winning style. :cry: How many times have you had two pair plus the nut flush draw, only to miss out on your flush, and lose to a 6 high flush player who was going low but missed but called you all the way to the river anyhow with his 6 high flush (the six and a lower suited card are in his hand, therefore the 6 high) :?: Happens to me all the time at the lower limits of Omaha Hi/Lo. There is a saying that goes something like "If it can happen, it will happen in Omaha Hi/Lo". Protecting your pretty good hand from the flop against the chasers (see the 6 high flush example above) seems to hurt you (me) in the long run. :boohoo: Just last week, I was playing a $0.50/$1 Omaha Hi/Lo ring game on Paradise. I play a very conservative (tight) game, so I am only in with Premium hands (a la Phil Hellmuth or SS). Every single pot I played I lost to the same player, who had absolutely crap hands pre-flop that somehow managed to win against me every time. I didn't matter how much I bet/raised/re-raised, he called them all, all the way to the showdown. Many a pot he won with hands such as the 6 high flush I have indicated below. I was fairly civil with this person throughout, as we chatted quite a bit after each showdown. However, after losing my entire buy-in at that table (thankfully it was only $20, which I quickly won back in two or three Omaha Hi/Lo Sit-N-Go's) to this one person, I made some quick notes about his playing and left the table. :idea: I have lost enough times (and not just that day) to realize that some tables are impossible to beat using any kind of strategy/skill (meaning that they are a crap shoot - best hand wins). :naughty: Those are not my kind of tables.More often than not, at the lower limits of Omaha Hi/Lo, you will come across just that - a crap shoot, where you are hoping that the poker gods are with you. Games like that are a waste - you may as well go play some online bingo :!:

[Shaffer]

Rocketwadster, I really, really don't mean to be rude, but if you can't beat the micro-limit Omaha Hi/Lo games online, you should probably consider changing your playing style. I find low limit Omaha8 to be exceedingly profitable for exactly the same reasons that you seem to find it unbeatable! I get frustrated very quickly with low-limit Hold 'em very quickly, as it's very boring to me; essentially I find myself waiting for premium hands, and then waiting for the flop to improve those premium hands - I've folded AA an insane number of times in the face of capped betting on the turn because I knew (usually correctly) that someone out there sucked out a ridiculous two-pair. The "schooling" of hold 'em makes it more of a crapshoot. So far as I have been able to tell, Omaha hi/lo seems immune to that schooling.Why? Because the odds tend to be less volatile. It's really very simple. I will not play a hand that doesn't have reasonable scooping potential. And I will not play post-flop unless the flop gives me the nuts, and/or a reasonable (i.e. pot-odds dictated) number of outs to the nuts. And if I miss those outs, I calmly and quietly check-fold on the river. I abandon all notion of "pushing people off the pot" since I know they aren't going to fold - which is what makes it so profitable when I *do* have a good hand!To me, Omaha is a game of folding, folding, and when I'm sick of that, more folding. You can stand a lot of folding when the hands that you *do* win are going to, without a doubt, scoop you a pot that is 40BB. I don't necessarily chase 8-or-9 out draws to the nuts. I'm looking for more along the lines of 12+ outs: a nut low draw with A23; nut flush + nut low with A2; nut straight+nut flush draws; wraparound nut straights; draws to blanks or a boat with top set; trip draws to a boat with the nut low - the real monsters. One draw is only very rarely enough. Seek these hands out - and they will come - and you will hit them more often than not.I haven't had a losing session playing OH8 in quite some time. Granted, some of my winning sessions are, like $3, but it's fun, and for me, I haven't lost money. So I guess I have to respectfully disagree.

[ahosang]

Low limit games are profitable without too much thinking. The game changes when you play against people who know the basics. Then you have to concentrate on making good bets or saving bets.