5 replies to this topic

[shamhawks]

Playing .50/$1 limit today and have got jacks in early to middle position 4 times today (in about 100 hands :shock: )I have lost all 4 times with a K or A coming up on the flop.I raised 2 times and I limped in the other 2 times (gun shy from the earlier 2 loses)What are some opinions on how to play this. I know Jacks are not that great "especially early" but like to raise sometimes to narrow the field.here is one that i found...#Game No : 1525553956 ***** Hand History for Game 1525553956 *****$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Tuesday, February 01, 14:46:10 EDT 2005Table Table 31039 (Real Money)Seat 8 is the buttonTotal number of players : 9 Seat 1: Cardinal991 ( $32.75 )Seat 3: gambler5101 ( $95.38 )Seat 6: Benny81 ( $11.25 )Seat 7: ek789 ( $25 )Seat 8: dddpjmr ( $24.38 )Seat 9: Bluesmaster ( $31.87 )Seat 10: crax1yt3 ( $16.12 )Seat 4: shamhawks ( $26.25 )Seat 5: bennhut1952 ( $27.25 )crax1yt3 posts small blind [$0.25].Cardinal991 posts big blind [$0.5].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to shamhawks [ Jd Jh ]gambler5101 folds.shamhawks raises [$1].bennhut1952 folds.Benny81 calls [$1].ek789 folds.dddpjmr calls [$1].crax1yt3 folds.Cardinal991 folds.** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, Ah, 4c ]shamhawks checks.Benny81 checks.dddpjmr bets [$0.5].shamhawks calls [$0.5].Benny81 calls [$0.5].** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]shamhawks checks.Benny81 checks.dddpjmr bets [$1].shamhawks folds.Benny81 folds.dddpjmr does not show cards.dddpjmr wins $5.75If this guy has an ace...pretty sure he does based on previous hands, i'm like 22 to 1 with only 2 outs on the flop...i do give away 1 bet, but cut my loses on the turn.

[holman3rd]

shamhawks said:

Playing .50/$1 limit today and have got jacks in early to middle position 4 times today (in about 100 hands :shock: )I have lost all 4 times with a K or A coming up on the flop.I raised 2 times and I limped in the other 2 times (gun shy from the earlier 2 loses)What are some opinions on how to play this. I know Jacks are not that great "especially early" but like to raise sometimes to narrow the field.here is one that i found...#Game No : 1525553956 ***** Hand History for Game 1525553956 *****$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Tuesday, February 01, 14:46:10 EDT 2005Table Table 31039 (Real Money)Seat 8 is the buttonTotal number of players : 9 Seat 1: Cardinal991 ( $32.75 )Seat 3: gambler5101 ( $95.38 )Seat 6: Benny81 ( $11.25 )Seat 7: ek789 ( $25 )Seat 8: dddpjmr ( $24.38 )Seat 9: Bluesmaster ( $31.87 )Seat 10: crax1yt3 ( $16.12 )Seat 4: shamhawks ( $26.25 )Seat 5: bennhut1952 ( $27.25 )crax1yt3 posts small blind [$0.25].Cardinal991 posts big blind [$0.5].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to shamhawks [ Jd Jh ]gambler5101 folds.shamhawks raises [$1].bennhut1952 folds.Benny81 calls [$1].ek789 folds.dddpjmr calls [$1].crax1yt3 folds.Cardinal991 folds.** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, Ah, 4c ]shamhawks checks.Benny81 checks.dddpjmr bets [$0.5].shamhawks calls [$0.5].Benny81 calls [$0.5].** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]shamhawks checks.Benny81 checks.dddpjmr bets [$1].shamhawks folds.Benny81 folds.dddpjmr does not show cards.dddpjmr wins $5.75If this guy has an ace...pretty sure he does based on previous hands, i'm like 22 to 1 with only 2 outs on the flop...i do give away 1 bet, but cut my loses on the turn.

I don't see a problem with raising preflop from early position, but it's more of a value bet at this level. It rarely works to thin the field. In fact, most players won't even think twice about your raise.I think the only mistake you made was not leading with a continuation bet on the flop. You can't check there, it shows weakness. DDD didn't necessarily have an Ace, but may have seen the opportunity to represent one when it was checked to him. When you just called behind him, it probably solidified his read on you. On the other hand, if you take the lead, most low-limit players (if they are paying attention) tend to put you on AK. If they don't have an Ace, they'll probably drop anything but a strong draw or some piece of the flop. If you get just called on your lead bet on the flop, I'd lead again on the turn. If there is a big ace out there, you'll probably see a raise here. If you get raised on the flop, I'd probably just call and check the turn. It probably does mean an Ace at this level, but could mean someone is on a draw or is trying to find out if their 4 or 5 is good. Regardless, it all stems from my believe that you should have led the betting on the flop.

[UglyJimStudly]

shamhawks said:

What are some opinions on how to play this. I know Jacks are not that great "especially early" but like to raise sometimes to narrow the field.

I tend to raise and bet until somebody gives me a reason not to, or the board gets really scary (two overcards, or a 3-flush - or straight - that wakes somebody up). Basically play 'em like trips or pocket aces. Even on passive tables with a lot of calling stations, I've had pretty good success making the A-junk hands fold... at least, if they've seen me play trips the same way earlier. However, I mostly play live, and rely in part on table image and reads to make this work; might be harder online.

[shamhawks]

thanks, this was the second one i got of the 4 and pretty soon after i got busted on the first one...i will try and find it, but same thing different table...raise i think utg 3/4 callers board comes out 10-k-A 2 suited...i do bet out on this one...have 4 good outs, as if a jack comes out i'm probably in trouble i get raised, so i check the turn... bet and raise...i foldI agree i should have bet out...if i'm going to be gun shy...shouldn't be at the table...I could have put him on a hand better, but if he just calls he still could be holding like a/10 not raising, cuz he puts me on bigger ace.

[randomization]

One piece of advice from Sklansky and Malmuth is that in early position Jacks should be raised at a tight table and just called with at a loose table. The reason is that you want no more than 2 opponents with Jacks so that they can hold up as the best hand, or a lot of opponents so that you get odds to try and hit a set. Three or four players leaves you in an uncomfortable position. Against three or more players, an Ace, King or Queen on the flop usually indicates you're losing, whereas against two you've got better chances of being ahead. On the flop, against three or more players, I think you have to check-fold to the ace, since so many players call any hand with an ace. However, if you can't bear to fold Jacks, for whatever reason, you might as well put the bet in yourself. That way, you get a lot of information from a raise, you don't give weaker hands a free card, and maybe you can cause a good player with QQ or the like to fold. Unfortunately, you'll have a tough decision on the turn depending on what happens. The worst thing to do is to check-call. What can you possibly gain? You waste a bet when you're behind, and give weaker hands a free card when you're ahead. Against a king or queen, I'd bet, unless there's a lot of opponents and respond in the same way to a raise.