plo8, multiway pot, flopped nut straight

[MrNiceGuy 0]

Everyone started with about $40-$50 stacks.Party Poker (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is Button with [Qc], [Ks], [Tc], [9h]. 4 limpers, Hero limps, SB folds, BB checks.Flop: [7s], [8h], [Js] (6 players)3 checks, LP bets pot, Hero calls, 2 callsPot: $14.90Turn: [6h] (4 players)EP bets pot, 2 calls, Hero calls.Pot: $70.River: [Qh] (4 players)EP bets all-in ($22), MP raises all-in ($43), LP folds, Hero folds.Look ok? I think I was right to just call the turn, but that's my main question.

[Guest Zach6668]

Should you not be reraising the flop and turn in order to protect our fragile hand, or are we assuming the raiser has the nuts as well, but with redraws?Zach

[Petoria 0]

I think you were ok, but idk how to play hands like this well either.You have the nuts, but your hand is extremely vulnerable and you have no redraws. Would like to get a response from one of the more experienced PLO8 players.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

My only redraws are to a better straight (if a 9 or T hits, I'll still have the nut straight).I arguably could reraise the flop to try to shut out low draws. But I thought there might be more value in waiting for a safe turn, when I'd have better equity against any draws or redraws. Then, after the turn, I opted not to raise since half the deck would hurt me on the river, and I'd most likely be getting half the pot at best anyway with the low draw having hit.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Check/fold the flop. 8)

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Fold on the flop, look, you can't stop low draws, you can't stop flush draws, you can't stop set draws... This is not a good flop to invest another penny.I would had played your hand preflop giving the position, but that's not the types of flop I would be looking for.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

Fold on the flop, look, you can't stop low draws, you can't stop flush draws, you can't stop set draws... This is not a good flop to invest another penny.I would had played your hand preflop giving the position, but that's not the types of flop I would be looking for.

Okay, you're right. On the flop, there are 9 turn cards I would really like (non-spade K's, Q's, T's, 9's), 18 turn cards that would force me to fold (any spade, J, 8, 7), and 18 cards that make the low, and put me in a situation where I could be getting freerolled (non-spade 6's, 5's, 4's, 3's, 2's, A's), and where I'd be trying to hold on for half the pot at best.So yeah, I should've just folded; not enough good turn cards to work with. Not to mention that somebody else could easily have T9.

[Wintermute 0]

I'd raise on the flop. You're in position, use it.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I'd raise on the flop.  You're in position, use it.

This is a $50 PP table, raising would only build a bigger pot for the others.

[Wintermute 0]

I'd raise on the flop. You're in position, use it.

This is a $50 PP table, raising would only build a bigger pot for the others.

Or for you, should your hand hold up. If your reasoning is that a raise won't get anyone to fold at this level, then all the more reason to raise. The draws will counterfeit each other and share outs, so while your equity remains the same.

[Petoria 0]

I'd raise on the flop. You're in position, use it.

This is a $50 PP table, raising would only build a bigger pot for the others.

Or for you, should your hand hold up. If your reasoning is that a raise won't get anyone to fold at this level, then all the more reason to raise. The draws will counterfeit each other and share outs, so while your equity remains the same.

There are so many draws possible, that there doesnt have to be sharing.There is no way that you can value raise any street. You're not far ahead of anything. This is a horrible horrible idea.

[Wintermute 0]

I'd raise on the flop. You're in position, use it.

This is a $50 PP table, raising would only build a bigger pot for the others.

Or for you, should your hand hold up. If your reasoning is that a raise won't get anyone to fold at this level, then all the more reason to raise. The draws will counterfeit each other and share outs, so while your equity remains the same.

There are so many draws possible, that there doesnt have to be sharing.There is no way that you can value raise any street. You're not far ahead of anything. This is a horrible horrible idea.

First of all, I don't truly believe a raise here will not result in some folding behind you (should've mentioned this in my first post). The action on the flop goes checks, bet, then OP is up to act. A raise here will (or at least should) shut out many draws, and you will very likely get heads up with the original bettor. If you want to assign A234 to one player, the str w/ a flush redraw to another, and top set to a third, then sure this raise may be -EV if they all call. However, if we assign a reasonable range of hands to your opponents, I think a raise is not anywhere close to being -EV. If I were last to act after a bet and several calls, then I suppose I'd lean towards just calling. But I'd imagine that in the situation where you make a strong move on the flop and get 3 or more callers, some draws are shared and your equity is not being divided up as severely as it sounds you'd like to believe.

[bdc30 0]

Fold to the Pot sized bet on the flop.You are dodging too many outs, bothon the turn and river, and have VERY few ways to improve your hand.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

First of all, I don't truly believe a raise here will not result in some folding behind you (should've mentioned this in my first post). The action on the flop goes checks, bet, then OP is up to act. A raise here will (or at least should) shut out many draws, and you will very likely get heads up with the original bettor. If you want to assign A234 to one player, the str w/ a flush redraw to another, and top set to a third, then sure this raise may be -EV if they all call. However, if we assign a reasonable range of hands to your opponents, I think a raise is not anywhere close to being -EV. If I were last to act after a bet and several calls, then I suppose I'd lean towards just calling. But I'd imagine that in the situation where you make a strong move on the flop and get 3 or more callers, some draws are shared and your equity is not being divided up as severely as it sounds you'd like to believe.

Wintermute, First of all please don't feel discouraged just because many posters here have different approach than yours, in fact I like to hear different approaches with thoughful explanations and yours are very beneficial and appreciated , at least by me. I find something interesting when you are applying pressure to your opponents. If the next one calls your bet/raise, then it's very likely that many others would call too ("Oh, I've got the pot odds to chase and I am committed..."). If the first one collapsed then everyone else folded. So if you make a move like this you better be sure that you can knock the next one out and your not facing a bunch of calling buffalos, or else you will have too many bullets to dodge. After all, it's quite likely that you are putting your money in to win half of the pot back and even that half is quite shaky. For instance, you will never fold As2s3X here even you put a gun on that player's head and don't be surprised to see As2s3X here because it could be UTG or it could be some weak players who miss played this hand preflop.

[Petoria 0]

The other problem is that a raise won't shut out another str8. More likely than not the other QJ that would come along has a better draw. It happens quite often, and the worst thing in PLO8 is being freerolled on.

[Wintermute 0]

The other problem is that a raise won't shut out another str8. More likely than not the other QJ that would come along has a better draw. It happens quite often, and the worst thing in PLO8 is being freerolled on.

QJ?! What the **** are you talking about? Also, the worst thing in PLO8 isn't being freerolled; it's missing a bet when you have a huge edge. Imagine that the first bettor bets with naked nut low draw (why wouldn't that bet here? it's ****ing $50 PLO8 for ****'s sake. these ****ers don't know their ass from their elbow), and you raise with the nut straight. Then YOU'RE freerolling HIM--if he catches low, fine he gets his money back. If not, then you scoop. Maybe some shitheads call behind, if they do, then buddylist them and count on them to pay off your nut flushes, flopped boats, flopped nut lows w/ some high potential, etc. If you're constantly afraid of being freerolled or quartered, you'll find a way to fold away a significant portion of your equity.

[RawTurkey 0]

Call on the flop, move in on a safe turn card. The turn card wasn't safe, but there were several callers, so a call with the nut high was reasonable. You played it perfectly as the cards fell.

[bdc30 0]

Call on the flop, move in on a safe turn card. The turn card wasn't safe, but there were several callers, so a call with the nut high was reasonable. You played it perfectly as the cards fell.

In case anyone was going to listen to this guyplease read what he wrote in another post.

What is wrong with you dumb fks?????????Do you think you are making the world a better place by teaching people to "make" money playing poker? Do you not realize (except for Party Poker) that it's a zero sum game? There's no "making" of money being done, only redistributing.Poker is war. In war, you don't play by the rules if you want to win. You tell players to fold wheel wrap + nut flush draws so that you can win more money for yourself. Personally, I think Wintermute's approach is even more diabolical. Yes, the more aggressive style is mathematically correct, but 90% of the party poker clowns could not implement it. Instead, they'll just "loosen up" and give away their money faster.As for me, I just post misleading advice that sounds reasonable. I have a gift for picking my words correctly and displaying the correct amount of arrogance. That's how I fight this war. The great thing is, even though I admitted what I do openly in the previous paragraph, people will still listen to my advice! Poker is a way to move money from dumb people to smart people a little more quickly than the real world does. If you want to help people to stoke your ego, you are paying for that ego boost with real dollars. I know both of these guys Party Poker aliases and have taken large sums of money from them. I even have some personal knowledge that Smash has a serious gambling problem that has affected his relationships severely. But you know what? I'm going to take advantage of that. And you know why? Because this is war.

[RawTurkey 0]

It really doesn't matter whether they see my rant post, people will still listen to and follow my advice. I've already been PMed by one member asking a follow up question. I'm sure, even as you were typing your message, you were realizing how logical my suggested play is. It's like a drug, and I'm a dealer. You have no power to control it.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

It really doesn't matter whether they see my rant post, people will still listen to and follow my advice. I've already been PMed by one member asking a follow up question. I'm sure, even as you were typing your message, you were realizing how logical my suggested play is. It's like a drug, and I'm a dealer. You have no power to control it.

You're a fucking pud. Honestly. I'm guessing you're below average height, 5'4 or so.You're angry at your mother for cursing you with bad genes. It's those same genes that led to your "gland problem" which has since resulted in obesity.Your father smacked you around and all you really want is a hug.So to get back at the world, you come onto internet message boards, post shitty advice, claim to take money off two known winners and immediately enter into pissing contests with every poster you can. Really, just go back to your hole.It's trolls like you who eventually make forums like this one a shit hole. Go away.

[Wintermute 0]

So to get back at the world, you come onto internet message boards, post shitty advice, claim to take money off two known winners and immediately enter into pissing contests with every poster you can.

Actually, I'm willing to admit that RawTurkey has won money off me--not much, but he hasn't lied about results in the past to my knowledge, and his claim (at least concerning my part of it) is true. About his advice; it's generally decent advice, and I myself at least consider what he writes thoughtfully. Of course, he is a dick... but who's here to make friends?