Don Giovanni 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Who do they think they're messing with? No one pulls this on Don Giovanni.Thats right, i caught some punks colluding at a short handed $.50-$1 limit holdem table i was at. Anyone can get away with collusion, as long as you dont .... anyone off. Well they ....ed me off. I had already taken a few bad beats so i wasnt in a good mood. Then this hand happens...Table 'Seppina' Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: dag01220 ($18.25 in chips) Seat 2: Don Giovanni ($5.75 in chips) Seat 3: chopjohnb ($34.50 in chips) Seat 4: Dick_Clapper ($16.50 in chips) Seat 6: sith2 ($61.75 in chips) Don Giovanni: posts small blind $0.25chopjohnb: posts big blind $0.50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Don Giovanni [9c 9h] Dick_Clapper: calls $0.50sith2: calls $0.50dag01220: folds Don Giovanni: raises $0.50 to $1chopjohnb: calls $0.50Dick_Clapper: calls $0.50sith2: calls $0.50*** FLOP *** [9d Ts 7d]Don Giovanni: bets $0.50chopjohnb: folds Dick_Clapper: calls $0.50sith2: calls $0.50*** TURN *** [9d Ts 7d] [5h] Don Giovanni: bets $1Dick_Clapper: raises $1 to $2sith2: calls $2Don Giovanni: raises $1 to $3Dick_Clapper: calls $1sith2: calls $1*** RIVER *** [9d Ts 7d 5h] [8h]Don Giovanni: checks Dick_Clapper: checks sith2: bets $1Don Giovanni: calls $1Dick_Clapper: folds *** SHOW DOWN ***sith2: shows [Jd 2s] (a straight, Seven to Jack)Don Giovanni: mucks hand sith2 collected $15.75 from potyea... where do i start... he called preflop with a J2 off. Then he called the preflop raise. He flops a gutshot and i flop a set. He calls two bets on the turn?? WHAT?? and then the reraise. Then he hits his strait and i know it, but i have to call. Nobody deserves this, nobody. Anyway, i keep my eye on this guy. I see him and this other guy constantly reraising each other preflop. I look at the hand history of a hand where this sith2 guy had pocket aces. Heres what went on preflop:Table 'Seppina' Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: dag01220 ($26.75 in chips) Seat 2: Don Giovanni ($2.50 in chips) Seat 3: chopjohnb ($55.25 in chips) Seat 5: pageup ($24 in chips) Seat 6: sith2 ($57.50 in chips) amram will be allowed to play after the buttonpageup: posts small blind $0.25sith2: posts big blind $0.50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Don Giovanni [7c 2d]dag01220: calls $0.50Don Giovanni: folds chopjohnb: raises $0.50 to $1pageup: raises $0.50 to $1.50sith2: raises $0.50 to $2Betting is cappeddag01220: calls $1.50chopjohnb: calls $1pageup: calls $0.50wow, imagine that. the two characters in question (sith2 and chopjohnb)are reraising each other preflop when one of them has pocket aces. Then this happens:*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Don Giovanni [Ac Ks]fcupholders: folds pageup: folds sith2: calls $0.50dag01220: calls $0.50Don Giovanni: raises $0.50 to $1chopjohnb: raises $0.50 to $1.50sith2: calls $1dag01220: calls $1Don Giovanni: raises $0.50 to $2Betting is cappedchopjohnb: calls $0.50sith2: calls $0.50dag01220: calls $0.50*** FLOP *** [Kc 6h 8c]Don Giovanni: bets $0.50chopjohnb: raises $0.50 to $1sith2: folds dag01220: folds Don Giovanni: raises $0.50 to $1.50chopjohnb: raises $0.50 to $2Betting is cappedDon Giovanni: calls $0.50*** TURN *** [Kc 6h 8c] [6d]Don Giovanni: checks chopjohnb: checks *** RIVER *** [Kc 6h 8c 6d] [Kh]Don Giovanni: bets $1chopjohnb: raises $1 to $2Don Giovanni: raises $1 to $3sith2 said, "ur gonna lose"chopjohnb: raises $1 to $4Betting is cappedDon Giovanni: calls $1*** SHOW DOWN ***chopjohnb: shows [Kd Qd] (a full house, Kings full of Sixes)Don Giovanni: shows [Ac Ks] (a full house, Kings full of Sixes)Don Giovanni collected $9.75 from potchopjohnb collected $9.50 from potNotice what he said once the other guy got the full house. Obviously they are in communication with each other. Oh yea and i should have won that hand. That was crap. So, at this point i decided to move my mouse over their names. And what did i find? Both of their locations were Tunbridge Wells. Some place in England or somewhere. Idiots... So i complained to pokerstars and am awaiting the results. It had better be swift and harsh. And i promised both of those punks that i would come to england and slap them into next month before i left the table.Any of you ever had a problem with slimes like these two? Link to post Share on other sites
GTOnizuka 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 wow i never thought something like this could happen. ALways wondered though what if someone had multiple computers and pulled the same thing at one table. Sorry thats bad man. Link to post Share on other sites
Don Giovanni 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 well im not saying it was the same person running 2 accounts. it was probly some guy and his freind talking to each other on instant messenger and telling each other what hand they had. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 what are they gonna do. Ban people from the same city from playing at the same table...theres nothing you...or the site can do. Link to post Share on other sites
GTOnizuka 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 what are they gonna do. Ban people from the same city from playing at the same table...theres nothing you...or the site can do.this is true but, you can have a voodoo preist jinx them for life. :twisted: Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I don beleive in voodoo.....OUCH....what the hell, felt like I got poked with a needle..... Link to post Share on other sites
halvey7 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 what are they gonna do. Ban people from the same city from playing at the same table...theres nothing you...or the site can do.Actually eddie if Pokerstars finds out they were cheating they will refund his money and freeze those other 2 guys accounts Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 what are they gonna do. Ban people from the same city from playing at the same table...theres nothing you...or the site can do.What are you gonna do? Ban their asses from the site permanently... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Yeah you can stop those two by banning them, but this will always be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
ChaoPlayaz 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I dont see enough to prove collusion here...first of all, with that first hand all you did was prove that one guy was a bad player and capable of making some of these plays without collusionwhen he said "you're going to lose" or whatever, how do you know he wasnt talking to his friend, making fun of him and telling him he was going to lose? and the raising preflop?some of my friends play very low limits online, around .25/.50, and sometimes when I see that theyre on I'll sit at their table and keep raising just to piss them off, and when they are in a hand I'll make fun of them telling them that they suck and stuff... does that mean I'm colluding?I don't want to get in a flame war with you, but it sounds to me like you're just pissed off about losing a few pots to bad beats, and want to get a reason to why you lost. These guys gave you the beats so obviously you want to take them down for playing terribly but outdrawing you.It definetly could have been collusion, but I just don't see enough evidence to convict these people of it Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I dont see enough to prove collusion here...first of all, with that first hand all you did was prove that one guy was a bad player and capable of making some of these plays without collusionwhen he said "you're going to lose" or whatever, how do you know he wasnt talking to his friend, making fun of him and telling him he was going to lose? and the raising preflop?some of my friends play very low limits online, around .25/.50, and sometimes when I see that theyre on I'll sit at their table and keep raising just to censored them off, and when they are in a hand I'll make fun of them telling them that they suck and stuff... does that mean I'm colluding?I don't want to get in a flame war with you, but it sounds to me like you're just censored off about losing a few pots to bad beats, and want to get a reason to why you lost. Â These guys gave you the beats so obviously you want to take them down for playing terribly but outdrawing you.dude start puttin 2 and 2 together...... Link to post Share on other sites
ChaoPlayaz 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 wow you must have read my post fast, I edited it a few seconds after first posting it... I edited it because after reading it I fealt like I sounded as if I thought there was in no way collusionI'm not saying there wasn't collusion, there definetly could have been. I'm just saying that I don't see enough evidence to prove it from the hands that he posted Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 A very simple rule of thumb is to just look at the table before you ever enter it, and not play at one that features more than one person from the same location. Link to post Share on other sites
hawk99 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 why would someone collude at such low limits? I've heard of collusion at SNG's. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 wow you must have read my post fast, I edited it a few seconds after first posting it... I edited it because after reading it I fealt like I sounded as if I thought there was in no way collusionI'm not saying there wasn't collusion, there definetly could have been. Â I'm just saying that I don't see enough evidence to prove it from the hands that he postedI see plenty of evidence.....that fact they are both from....wherever england is just insurance that the are Link to post Share on other sites
the_stein 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 My friend and I did this once at a shorthanded 5/10 table, we tore it up until some guy that we busted watched us and figured it out and reported it to party poker and party poker wouldn't allow us to sit at the same table anymore... haha good times Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Who do they think they're messing with? No one pulls this on Don Giovanni.Thats right, i caught some punks colluding at a short handed $.50-$1 limit holdem table i was at. Anyone can get away with collusion, as long as you dont .... anyone off. Well they ....ed me off.  I had already taken a few bad beats so i wasnt in a good mood. Then this hand happens...Table 'Seppina' Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: dag01220 ($18.25 in chips)  Seat 2: Don Giovanni ($5.75 in chips)  Seat 3: chopjohnb ($34.50 in chips)  Seat 4: Dick_Clapper ($16.50 in chips)  Seat 6: sith2 ($61.75 in chips)  Don Giovanni: posts small blind $0.25chopjohnb: posts big blind $0.50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Don Giovanni [9c 9h]   Dick_Clapper: calls $0.50sith2: calls $0.50dag01220: folds  Don Giovanni: raises $0.50 to $1chopjohnb: calls $0.50Dick_Clapper: calls $0.50sith2: calls $0.50*** FLOP *** [9d Ts 7d]Don Giovanni: bets $0.50chopjohnb: folds  Dick_Clapper: calls $0.50sith2: calls $0.50*** TURN *** [9d Ts 7d] [5h]   Don Giovanni: bets $1Dick_Clapper: raises $1 to $2sith2: calls $2Don Giovanni: raises $1 to $3Dick_Clapper: calls $1sith2: calls $1*** RIVER *** [9d Ts 7d 5h] [8h]Don Giovanni: checks  Dick_Clapper: checks  sith2: bets $1Don Giovanni: calls $1Dick_Clapper: folds  *** SHOW DOWN ***sith2: shows [Jd 2s] (a straight, Seven to Jack)Don Giovanni: mucks hand  sith2 collected $15.75 from potyea... where do i start... he called preflop with a J2 off. Then he called the preflop raise. He flops a gutshot and i flop a set. He calls two bets on the turn??  WHAT?? and then the reraise. Then he hits his strait and i know it, but i have to call.  Nobody deserves this, nobody. Anyway, i keep my eye on this guy. I see him and this other guy constantly reraising each other preflop. I look at the hand history of a hand where this sith2 guy had pocket aces. Heres what went on preflop:Table 'Seppina' Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: dag01220 ($26.75 in chips)  Seat 2: Don Giovanni ($2.50 in chips)  Seat 3: chopjohnb ($55.25 in chips)  Seat 5: pageup ($24 in chips)  Seat 6: sith2 ($57.50 in chips)  amram will be allowed to play after the buttonpageup: posts small blind $0.25sith2: posts big blind $0.50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Don Giovanni [7c 2d]dag01220: calls $0.50Don Giovanni: folds  chopjohnb: raises $0.50 to $1pageup: raises $0.50 to $1.50sith2: raises $0.50 to $2Betting is cappeddag01220: calls $1.50chopjohnb: calls $1pageup: calls $0.50wow, imagine that. the two characters in question (sith2 and chopjohnb)are reraising each other preflop when one of them has pocket aces.  Then this happens:*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Don Giovanni [Ac Ks]fcupholders: folds  pageup: folds  sith2: calls $0.50dag01220: calls $0.50Don Giovanni: raises $0.50 to $1chopjohnb: raises $0.50 to $1.50sith2: calls $1dag01220: calls $1Don Giovanni: raises $0.50 to $2Betting is cappedchopjohnb: calls $0.50sith2: calls $0.50dag01220: calls $0.50*** FLOP *** [Kc 6h 8c]Don Giovanni: bets $0.50chopjohnb: raises $0.50 to $1sith2: folds  dag01220: folds  Don Giovanni: raises $0.50 to $1.50chopjohnb: raises $0.50 to $2Betting is cappedDon Giovanni: calls $0.50*** TURN *** [Kc 6h 8c] [6d]Don Giovanni: checks  chopjohnb: checks  *** RIVER *** [Kc 6h 8c 6d] [Kh]Don Giovanni: bets $1chopjohnb: raises $1 to $2Don Giovanni: raises $1 to $3sith2 said, "ur gonna lose"chopjohnb: raises $1 to $4Betting is cappedDon Giovanni: calls $1*** SHOW DOWN ***chopjohnb: shows [Kd Qd] (a full house, Kings full of Sixes)Don Giovanni: shows [Ac Ks] (a full house, Kings full of Sixes)Don Giovanni collected $9.75 from potchopjohnb collected $9.50 from potNotice what he said once the other guy got the full house. Obviously they are in communication with each other. Oh yea and i should have won that hand. That was crap.  So, at this point i decided to move my mouse over their names. And what did i find? Both of their locations were Tunbridge Wells. Some place in England or somewhere. Idiots...  So i complained to pokerstars and am awaiting the results. It had better be swift and harsh. And i promised both of those punks that i would come to england and slap them into next month before i left the table.Any of you ever had a problem with slimes like these two?very sorry to hear that happened,,,glad you busted them...what did they say when you confronted them? keep us informed as to what pokerstars intends to do....thanks for the heads up as i play on that site and limits as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Pupsta 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I'm kind of afraid that one day, my friends and I will get accused of collusion at FullTilt. We are generally always on the same Razz table, but there's no collusion. In fact, I want their money more than i want the other peoples' money It's pure competition...maybe you ran into that? Link to post Share on other sites
Jensen 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 My buddy has busted people on stars...They will find out if the 2 suspects have previously played together at the same table. If it turns out to be true, they will then go into more detail checking hands, seeing if anyone of them is making any strange plays while they are both in the same pot.. EX, re-raising on the river 3 handed with j-highwhen his buddy has the nuts.Trust me they take this seriously, and they do a very detailed search. Link to post Share on other sites
THE ACE IS BACK 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I have been at tables where two people raise each other up to the 10th degree; however, there name/location does not match. Regardless you just know they're in collusion with each other. I remember in one case the two kept raising and raising and raising, and guess what left the table at the exact same time. Here's the good thing. The most they can be telling each other is thier two hole cards.. And if you have a great hand and they keep raising you, raise with them and take them down for a huge pot. Don't get involved in questionable hands, because you know there will be a ton of raises. But when the time is right you take them down hard. Be more selective when you feel there is collusion going on at your table. But there is a lot of money to be won if you don't get involved in all the raising untill the right time. Lastly, it was good of you to catch this and deal with it. Hopefully pokerstars takes action. Link to post Share on other sites
tentenoffsuit 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 A very simple rule of thumb is to just look at the table before you ever enter it, and not play at one that features more than one person from the same location.that's what i do. Link to post Share on other sites
chuckf410 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 A very simple rule of thumb is to just look at the table before you ever enter it, and not play at one that features more than one person from the same location.Well this doesn't work in this day and age with the internet. I have friends literally all over the world and we'll sit at the same tables regularly. We also have yahoo/msn/aol/jabber chats going at the same time. It would be easy to team up if we wished. It takes all the fun out of the game and creates horrible karma, but we could do it. However at play tables I'll collude with friends to get rid of the idiots that show up. But there it's all play money and nothing real to lose. Link to post Share on other sites
decr8er 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I think that this has been a problem for as long as there have been card tables. It seems to me to be much easier in this day and age. I know a guy who ran a program with a few others on PPoker last year. They could actually see everyones cards. They got busted. Thank God. Whats the answer? Ed has a point about the same town....but with IM it could happen from anywhere. Its scary. And ruins the game ( play money or not) B&M or online. I'm glad that you brought this out. I will keep a seperate page in my journal listing very unusual play, and the names of everyone at the table. I will check that list when there is more bizaar play at the same site. Who knows, might catch someone out and get rid of them for a while. At any rate itll give me something to do between folds . Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Where's the evidence of coullusion?? Link to post Share on other sites
justblaze 0 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 To the OP: unfortunately, only the Aces hand really looks suspicious to me, and even then you dont know what the supposed partner wa sholding so i think, while this could be collusion, you dont have nearly enough evidence to prove it. If he had AK, or AQ, or even a medium pocket pair, stars is likely to say thanks but no thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
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