17 replies to this topic

[shamhawks]

I played this one so bad...thought i could induce a bluff with my checks...what do you think.#Game No : 1512664843 ***** Hand History for Game 1512664843 *****NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:9111285 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Saturday, January 29, 23:03:47 EDT 2005Table Table 12479 (Real Money)Seat 5 is the buttonTotal number of players : 9 Seat 2: Dawg_Outlaw ( $815 )Seat 5: rugsetter ( $775 )Seat 6: BlackRambo ( $1105 )Seat 10: Comptr ( $790 )Seat 9: smokeantoke ( $1595 )Seat 4: Phippo44 ( $630 )Seat 8: shamhawks ( $800 )Seat 7: NHStoneFace ( $785 )Seat 1: Pookie48 ( $705 )Trny:9111285 Level:1Blinds(10/15)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to shamhawks [ Ks Kc ]shamhawks raises [55].smokeantoke folds.Comptr folds.Pookie48 folds.Dawg_Outlaw calls [55].Phippo44 folds.rugsetter folds.BlackRambo folds.NHStoneFace folds.** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 8s, Kh ]shamhawks checks.Dawg_Outlaw checks.** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]shamhawks checks.Dawg_Outlaw checks.** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]shamhawks bets [300].Dawg_Outlaw folds.shamhawks does not show cards.shamhawks wins 435 chipsGame #1512667391 starts.I change my betting up, but what do you think the best is here....bigger pre-flop raise...did about 3xbb....bet a small flop bet, bigger turn bet, and all-in river... or bet...check...bet... it was too early in this tourney to get a feel for the other player.on a side note, i won this tourney for my second st8 sng to make my first day total from $0 to $1000 at $43.75 ......as in my normal play this experiment is doing the same thing...make money in tourney's...give some back in cash games :cry: #Game No : 1512822919 ***** Hand History for Game 1512822919 *****NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:9111285 Level:6 Blinds(150/300) - Saturday, January 29, 23:35:01 EDT 2005Table Table 12479 (Real Money)Seat 8 is the buttonTotal number of players : 2 Seat 9: smokeantoke ( $2930 )Seat 8: shamhawks ( $5070 )Trny:9111285 Level:6Blinds(150/300)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to shamhawks [ 6s Kd ]shamhawks calls [150].smokeantoke checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ Ts, 9s, Ks ]smokeantoke checks.shamhawks bets [300].smokeantoke calls [300].** Dealing Turn ** [ 3c ]smokeantoke checks.shamhawks bets [1200].smokeantoke is all-In [2330]shamhawks: glshamhawks calls [1130].** Dealing River ** [ Js ]shamhawks shows [ 6s, Kd ] a flush, king high.smokeantoke shows [ Td, 4d ] a pair of tens.smokeantoke finished in second place and won $15.shamhawks wins 5860 chips from the main pot with a flush, king high.vngsmokeantoke has left the table.Congratulations,shamhawks! You won $25.shamhawks has left the table.Table Closed

[KDawgCometh]

I think that you over bet the river. The best place to make it look like your stealing is on the turn, just make what looks to be a post oak bet. When you bet the turn with a bet like this it may look like your on a steal. Also the 300 bet on the river, there was no way he could call you, so you needed to bet less, a lot less. then agaon he might not've called you with any sort of bet. Quads work best in a multiway, you got kinda unlucky that he didn't have anything

[amarillotg]

Its hard to get paid off with quads because most times (like this instance) you have all the cards. He might of called your pre-flop raise with Ace anything so thats all he probably had was ace high. Most times with that flop you won't get paid a dime. But, i do think your bet was a little much on the river. I would of bet about half the pot. I think its a good idea to check all the way to the river because you want to give him every opportunity to improve his hand so that he will be more willing to call a raise.But all in all just be happy you won the hand.

[Wilderness]

Most of the time with quads you won't be able to get much, if anything, just because they are unlikely to get a piece of it. But I probably would have checked to the river as well (actually I did the exact same thing with quads yesterday) and then bet. I think your 300 bet was too big though, the blinds aren't very high at this point, so something like 100 may work better. Still, more often than not you won't be getting paid off big time for quads.

[shamhawks]

thanks..if i ever do flop quads again I will play a little better..I actually thought too much here...the only reason i bet larger than the pot was to make it look like I was trying to buy it with an overbet, but I should have bet about half the pot instead.....I kept thinking about the pros saying they fear the smaller bets more, but hey, I'm just playing low limit and the same thought process is not the same. I was also thinking with 2 pair on the board, he would call this bet if he had an ace for a split pot...but I'm thinking he had like 10/j J/q suited...

[JFarrell20]

First of all why the F did you raise to 55 in first position??? You bumped the blind up by a factor of nearly 4??? Just double the BB here. Get a few callers. If they play back at you, move over them. Anyway, BET THE FLOP! With two Kings out there and heads up, your opponent must assume you do not have a King, and are making a 'steal'. Bet the flop! he will call...Bet the turn... see what happens...bet the river..... (bigtime. I'd probably move all in as sort of a 'bluff') He may call thinking you're bluffing and you take down a MONSTER POT.

[jayistheman]

JFarrell20 said:

First of all why the F did you raise to 55 in first position???  You bumped the blind up by a factor of nearly 4???  Just double the BB here.  Get a few callers.   If they play back at you, move over them.  Anyway, BET THE FLOP!  With two Kings out there and heads up, your opponent must assume you do not have a King, and are making a 'steal'.  Bet the flop!  he will call...Bet the turn... see what happens...bet the river..... (bigtime.  I'd probably move all in as sort of a 'bluff')  He may call thinking you're bluffing and you take down a MONSTER POT.

i disagree with the small raise pre flop advice... this is a good way to put yourself in a spot to bust out... raise big, because they call anyway... i do, however completely agree with the "steal" bet on the flop... other night i did the exacy play you just outlined with KK on a flop of K Q Q... i actually gave the guy credit for a Q... lol.. he called me down with A hi in a 30 dollar pot.

[Wilderness]

JFarrell20 said:

First of all why the F did you raise to 55 in first position???  You bumped the blind up by a factor of nearly 4???  Just double the BB here.  Get a few callers.   If they play back at you, move over them.  Anyway, BET THE FLOP!  With two Kings out there and heads up, your opponent must assume you do not have a King, and are making a 'steal'.  Bet the flop!  he will call...Bet the turn... see what happens...bet the river..... (bigtime.  I'd probably move all in as sort of a 'bluff')  He may call thinking you're bluffing and you take down a MONSTER POT.

I don' t think that doubling the BB is the right move. I probably would have just bet the standard 3XBB raise, but there is nothing wrong with betting 55.I also wouldn't bet the flop either, because most likely people will put you on a K or at least be too worried about you having a K to call your raise. You very likely will not get a caller with a flop bet.You could bet on the turn, I can see the value in that, but I would check. My reasoning is that if someone has enough of a hand or thinks you have nothing and will call a bet by you, then if you check they are very likely going to bet. Then after smooth-calling that bet, you bet out a good size bet on the river and really make them think about it.

[JFarrell20]

Wilderness said:

I also wouldn't bet the flop either, because most likely people will put you on a K or at least be too worried about you having a K to call your raise.  You very likely will not get a caller with a flop bet.You could bet on the turn, I can see the value in that, but I would check.  My reasoning is that if someone has enough of a hand or thinks you have nothing and will call a bet by you, then if you check they are very likely going to bet.  Then after smooth-calling that bet, you bet out a good size bet on the river and really make them think about it.

BET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUST ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The implied odds of this hand are ENORMOUS! Do not waste the opportunity, you will either win a smallish pot, or win a HUGE MONSTER. HIGH RISK-HIGH REWARD! Nothing to fear!BET IT BET IT BET IT. He will call you with two kings on board. Believe me. Even if he folds, you will sleep knowing you made the right more. Implied odds of this hand are F-ing huge. Do not play like a timid little wuss-boy on this flop. BET IT!

[Smasharoo]

Bet the flop.Fastplaying is the new slowplaying. No one will belive you hit your hand and then bet out.

[wrto4556]

Smasharoo said:

Bet the flop.Fastplaying is the new slowplaying.  No one will belive you hit your hand and then bet out.

Good way to put it.And J, don't mini-raise KK...don't mini-raise AA. Raising the minimum is the worst move in NL. EVER. THE WORST. IT SUCKS. and you shouldn't do it.

[JFarrell20]

Hmm, yeah I'm kind of teetering on this one. I think 55 is too much for sure. My only reasoning for betting 2XBB is b/c you are in early position, and this is comparable to a 3-4XBB bet in mid/late position. A bet of 2XBB UTG should get plenty of laydowns, plus those who do call will not be that scared if a king falls (or three rags) b/c even if you bet pot, pot isn't that much since your pre-flop raise wasn't substantial. You should be able to get decent action this way post-flop.I guess it all comes down to the fact that getting dealt KK UTG is just plain the worst position possible to have that dealt to you. lol. Don't want 9 limpers behind you but you don't want 9 folders either. Maybe it just comes down to "is the table playing loose pre-flop, or tight?"

[shamhawks]

lots of good different opinions on this one...thanks....I have to admit my first instinct was to bet like 50 on the flop, and see if he makes a play at it...the better question is when will i flop quads again to make up for my mistake?

[wrto4556]

shamhawks said:

lots of good different opinions on this one...thanks....I have to admit my first instinct was to bet like 50 on the flop, and see if he makes a play at it...the better question is when will i flop quads again to make up for my mistake?

You've stumbled on something. You wont get quads enough to worry about playing them correctly. Worry about TPTK and draws, as you will see more of these.

[JFarrell20]

You flopped what will hold up as the nuts 99.9% of the time. Bet it! I agree, you won't have to worry about misplaying quads much. But it sure would be nice to know how to play them when you do! Like I said, bet it, it's the best way to get the most bang-for-your-buck. Not betting with quads is like going to spring break for a week and not talking to any girls, but waiting for them to come to you. lol. You spent time and money to get there...pounce on the opportunity!

[Eskimo]

Either check or bet the BB. You're not going to get any action at all with quads.

[wrto4556]

Eskimo said:

Either check or bet the BB. You're not going to get any action at all with quads.

Now that's not always true.

[JFarrell20]

Eskimo said:

Either check or bet the BB. You're not going to get any action at all with quads.

Two things can happen1) You'll get action2) You won't.If you Don't get action, you'll win a small pot, if you do get action, you'll win a big pot. It's best to find out early in the hand (on the flop) if he wants to give you action. If he folds to a small bet then it was never meant to be. Checking here is just play bad poker in the long-term money sense. A lot of people go to spring break and don't get any action, that doesn't mean they shouldn't find out on the first night if they have a shot at scoring all week! If they can score on the first night, then they have implied odds of scoring 7 nights in a row. If they find out they can't score, then oh well. At least they took a shot. Likewise, if they 'check it' all week long and don't score, just to find out they'll get called by a big bet on the river (scoring with a fine girl), and the dude shows AA, (the girl shows DD, as in double-D's), he'll be kicking himself for not finding out sooner that he had game.Bet the flop! Find out now if he's gonna give you action.