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#21 Royal_Tour

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:34 AM

Staynerjohn said:

If you fold KK in this position as a big stack you will never win a tourney...weak players fold there...he may think you are trying to muscle him and his possible hands are AA AK QQ even as little as JJ or AQs...if he was really a tight player and did this, then and only then would I hesitate...but I STILL CALL 99.9% in this spot...remember, you are not busted with this call even if you get beat...
I've won tourneys and i fold here.. soo i guess this idea is flawed

#22 whoomprat

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:36 AM

Royal_Tour said:

rocksquid said:

it would be a heck of a fold.
not really.. i folded AK last night when i made it 3200 to go and he came over the top of me, he showed KK. why risk your entire stack for something so stupid as a preflop race this early?.KK is dominating over any hand except AA, but i still dont like calling in this spot. the 4x raise is just to eerie
I never knew what a huge vagina you were.Passing on chance to double up because there's 5% chance this monkey has AA? I believe a race is when it's about even i.e. opponent has two over cards to your pair. There's only one overcard to KK, so no race.Per your AK fold, that would he a race against any pocket pair. Whole different ballgame.

#23 rocksquid

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:37 AM

I can see your point Royal about dumping a lot of chips so early in a tourney, but if you can double up so early in a tourney, and you can put your opponent on something less than aces, I think you take the shot.

#24 TruePoker

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:38 AM

Royal_Tour said:

Staynerjohn said:

If you fold KK in this position as a big stack you will never win a tourney...weak players fold there...he may think you are trying to muscle him and his possible hands are AA AK QQ even as little as JJ or AQs...if he was really a tight player and did this, then and only then would I hesitate...but I STILL CALL 99.9% in this spot...remember, you are not busted with this call even if you get beat...
I've won tourneys and i fold here.. soo i guess this idea is flawed
I have won 40+4 tourneys and I fold here. You are playing against the 2nd chip leader for almost all your chips. You are a ****ing retard if you think calling here is right just because you are a chip leader....This would make more sense if you were a shortstack than a chip leader vs 2nd chip leader. What a donkey seriously.

#25 TruePoker

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:43 AM

You are 70% here to win when he has one ace (a lot of the time), 20% when he has aces (he has so many chips, why would he push with junk), and 80% when has has a smaller pair (hardly any of the time).you have over 100 big blinds, why would you want to waste almost all your chips here. You get to be chip leader of a tournament early on, you aren't knocking anyone out that gives you an increased cash. You are just increasing your chips at this early stage of the tournament. If he has AA you lose the tournament in the early stages when you have over 100BB, if he has an ace then you still go out 1 in every 3 times.... If he has an underpair then you can be real happy that you got lucky.

#26 TruePoker

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:45 AM

Chimo hit msn

#27 Royal_Tour

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:47 AM

whoomprat said:

Royal_Tour said:

rocksquid said:

it would be a heck of a fold.
not really.. i folded AK last night when i made it 3200 to go and he came over the top of me, he showed KK. why risk your entire stack for something so stupid as a preflop race this early?.KK is dominating over any hand except AA, but i still dont like calling in this spot. the 4x raise is just to eerie
I never knew what a huge vagina you were.Passing on chance to double up because there's 5% chance this monkey has AA? I believe a race is when it's about even i.e. opponent has two over cards to your pair. There's only one overcard to KK, so no race.Per your AK fold, that would he a race against any pocket pair. Whole different ballgame.
I love vagina's. theres a 5% chance he has aces?.. baaahahah i love this.. where do you get this from idiot?ya theres also a 25% chance that i'm gonna have sex with my secretary.give me a break bud. If you want to sound smart you would have said there is a slight chance he has a PP higher than yours, and since you hold KK its a very slight chance. I'd also like to point out that when i say Race., I mean allowing all 5 cards to show.if chump boy holds 9,10 suited and calls our raise, and flop comes down J,K,3 what now? we are winning this hand, only a complete idiot chases.but chump boy pushed all in, and so we will give him the action he so desires and flop is J,K,3,7,Q. ohh we got rivered, bad beat right?. almost as bad as KK vs AA?.

#28 Pupsta

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:49 AM

not a chance i fold here. if he has aces, he has aces.

#29 rubberducky

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:54 AM

turn pro, make millions

#30 Jack10Suited

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:54 AM

Depends on the site. If you are playing Ultimate Bet then Automatic Call. 99% he also has KK and maybe you'll catch a flush. All others he probably has AA but still call because you are guaranteed to suck out.

#31 jlgosse

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:00 AM

He had AA, and ended up flopping an ace, sealing the deal of course.Left with 300 chips after that hand. Ended up fighting back but getting eliminated in 31st.

#32 Royal_Tour

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:04 AM

jlgosse said:

He had AA, and ended up flopping an ace, sealing the deal of course.Left with 300 chips after that hand. Ended up fighting back but getting eliminated in 31st.
thank you.. the small raise followed by over bet is just too fishie to not be aces.its also not smart to just throw your faith to a preflop decision this early with such a nice stack size

#33 whoomprat

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:06 AM

Royal_Tour said:

whoomprat said:

Royal_Tour said:

rocksquid said:

it would be a heck of a fold.
not really.. i folded AK last night when i made it 3200 to go and he came over the top of me, he showed KK. why risk your entire stack for something so stupid as a preflop race this early?.KK is dominating over any hand except AA, but i still dont like calling in this spot. the 4x raise is just to eerie
I never knew what a huge vagina you were.Passing on chance to double up because there's 5% chance this monkey has AA? I believe a race is when it's about even i.e. opponent has two over cards to your pair. There's only one overcard to KK, so no race.Per your AK fold, that would he a race against any pocket pair. Whole different ballgame.
I love vagina's. theres a 5% chance he has aces?.. baaahahah i love this.. where do you get this from idiot?ya theres also a 25% chance that i'm gonna have sex with my secretary.give me a break bud. If you want to sound smart you would have said there is a slight chance he has a PP higher than yours, and since you hold KK its a very slight chance. I'd also like to point out that when i say Race., I mean allowing all 5 cards to show.if chump boy holds 9,10 suited and calls our raise, and flop comes down J,K,3 what now? we are winning this hand, only a complete idiot chases.but chump boy pushed all in, and so we will give him the action he so desires and flop is J,K,3,7,Q. ohh we got rivered, bad beat right?. almost as bad as KK vs AA?.
SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof. Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.

#34 TruePoker

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:06 AM

4bb raise? That isn't small you idiot, 4bb raise is huge....

#35 Royal_Tour

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:07 AM

Jack10Suited said:

Depends on the site. If you are playing Ultimate Bet then Automatic Call. 99% he also has KK and maybe you'll catch a flush. All others he probably has AA but still call because you are guaranteed to suck out.
Ya.. this is sound advice.. make your decision based on the site ur on.pfff.. this is a jopke right?

#36 TruePoker

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:08 AM

whoomprat said:

Royal_Tour said:

whoomprat said:

Royal_Tour said:

rocksquid said:

it would be a heck of a fold.
not really.. i folded AK last night when i made it 3200 to go and he came over the top of me, he showed KK. why risk your entire stack for something so stupid as a preflop race this early?.KK is dominating over any hand except AA, but i still dont like calling in this spot. the 4x raise is just to eerie
I never knew what a huge vagina you were.Passing on chance to double up because there's 5% chance this monkey has AA? I believe a race is when it's about even i.e. opponent has two over cards to your pair. There's only one overcard to KK, so no race.Per your AK fold, that would he a race against any pocket pair. Whole different ballgame.
I love vagina's. theres a 5% chance he has aces?.. baaahahah i love this.. where do you get this from idiot?ya theres also a 25% chance that i'm gonna have sex with my secretary.give me a break bud. If you want to sound smart you would have said there is a slight chance he has a PP higher than yours, and since you hold KK its a very slight chance. I'd also like to point out that when i say Race., I mean allowing all 5 cards to show.if chump boy holds 9,10 suited and calls our raise, and flop comes down J,K,3 what now? we are winning this hand, only a complete idiot chases.but chump boy pushed all in, and so we will give him the action he so desires and flop is J,K,3,7,Q. ohh we got rivered, bad beat right?. almost as bad as KK vs AA?.
SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof. Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.
You push all in as chip leader with AT / KQ after you have been re-raised by another chip leader???? I am sure you win a lot of tournaments.....You are a chip leader, and you want to be out of the tournament 30% of the time? I wouldn't take that bet at all, it is just stupid. For a start he is probably got AA not just one A anyway. So you aren't really 7 / 3...

#37 jlgosse

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:08 AM

I knew he had aces, or at least I felt strongly that he did.I should have folded, but it's a hard hand to lay down. I laid kings down ONCE preflop in a live game, although it was a cash game, and the player DID in fact have aces.

#38 rocksquid

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:10 AM

I just know I am going to have a tough time laying down the kings. Here's hoping I can learn from all of your experiences.

#39 jlgosse

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:13 AM

NOTE: I called mainly because it was free money on Pacific, $5 that I turned into $40 and then played that tourney to try and win some cash.I figured if I had him beat I was chipleader in the tourney, if I lost then I still had a shot at it, and it was no big loss.

#40 Royal_Tour

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:14 AM

SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof.Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.Bottom line,You have no business trying to post odds refer to my old thread on the chances of a over pair to your pair, there is certain odds that you hold a lower PP to someones over pair. not a guestimate like you assume.And in this case, we are not debating wether he has AA, we are debating if its correct to call an all in here even though we are among top 5 in chips early in a MTT.on and BTW,, finally you are correct, AA isnt bad beat proof. Did i say i fold KK and AA preflop?. no. do i fold KK in this instance? Yes.thank you




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