58 replies to this topic

[JFarrell20]

Party Poker saturday afternoon:#Game No : 1510325779 ***** Hand History for Game 1510325779 *****$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Saturday, January 29, 15:13:15 EDT 2005Table Chip N Deal (Real Money)Seat 10 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10 Seat 1: pm479 ( $32.25 )Seat 2: GDL11 ( $26.92 )Seat 3: chk_raise_me ( $19.75 )Seat 4: skeetskeetky ( $16 )Seat 5: Franki42 ( $12.5 )Seat 6: DarkHumor ( $48.5 )Seat 7: DrPhysic ( $23 )Seat 9: joeyblitz ( $19 )Seat 10: JFarrell20 ( $45 )Seat 8: JerryWRX ( $24.5 )pm479 posts small blind [$0.25].GDL11 posts big blind [$0.5].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to JFarrell20 [ Ks Kh ]chk_raise_me folds.>You have options at Table 18361 Table!.skeetskeetky raises [$1].Franki42 folds.DarkHumor calls [$1].DrPhysic folds.JerryWRX folds.joeyblitz calls [$1].JFarrell20 raises [$1.5].pm479 calls [$1.25].GDL11 folds.skeetskeetky calls [$0.5].DarkHumor calls [$0.5].joeyblitz calls [$0.5].** Dealing Flop ** [ Qs, 5s, 3d ]pm479 checks.skeetskeetky checks.DarkHumor checks.joeyblitz bets [$0.5].JFarrell20 raises [$1].pm479 calls [$1].skeetskeetky raises [$1.5].DarkHumor folds.joeyblitz calls [$1].JFarrell20 raises [$1].pm479 calls [$1].>You have options at Table 32727 Table!.skeetskeetky calls [$0.5].joeyblitz calls [$0.5].** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]>You have options at Table 32727 Table!.pm479 checks.skeetskeetky checks.joeyblitz checks.JFarrell20 bets [$1].pm479 calls [$1].skeetskeetky calls [$1].joeyblitz calls [$1].** Dealing River ** [ 8c ]pm479 bets [$1].skeetskeetky calls [$1].joeyblitz raises [$2].>You have options at Table 18361 Table!.JFarrell20 calls [$2].pm479 calls [$1].>You have options at Table 32727 Table!.skeetskeetky calls [$1].joeyblitz shows [ 8h, 8s ] a full house, Eights full of threes.JFarrell20 shows [ Ks, Kh ] two pairs, kings and threes.pm479 doesn't show [ 7h, 5d ] two pairs, fives and threes.skeetskeetky doesn't show [ Tc, Qc ] two pairs, queens and threes.joeyblitz wins $27 from the main pot with a full house, Eights full of threes.OMGGame #1510337685 starts.I BERADED THIS GUY SO BAD. I'm raising here b/c I know nobody has a 3. This guy with the 88 says "I knew you had a high PP, you stink..."???????On to hand 2...#Game No : 1510275254 ***** Hand History for Game 1510275254 *****$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Saturday, January 29, 15:02:18 EDT 2005Table Table 32727 (Real Money)Seat 9 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10 Seat 1: GreasyThumbs ( $63.62 )Seat 3: Dankgrams ( $28.25 )Seat 5: kicker14111 ( $16.12 )Seat 6: Blind74 ( $30.5 )Seat 7: Lysemykt ( $11.62 )Seat 8: Conn48 ( $12.75 )Seat 9: JFarrell20 ( $40 )Seat 10: venturix ( $17.13 )Seat 4: Scooteriten ( $18.75 )Seat 2: tkennet ( $27.63 )venturix posts small blind [$0.25].GreasyThumbs posts big blind [$0.5].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to JFarrell20 [ As Ah ]tkennet calls [$0.5].Dankgrams folds.Scooteriten calls [$0.5].kicker14111 calls [$0.5].Blind74 folds.Lysemykt folds.Conn48 calls [$0.5].JFarrell20 raises [$1].venturix calls [$0.75].GreasyThumbs folds.tkennet calls [$0.5].Scooteriten calls [$0.5].kicker14111 calls [$0.5].Conn48 calls [$0.5].** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, 8h, 5c ]venturix checks.tkennet checks.Scooteriten checks.kicker14111 checks.Conn48 checks.JFarrell20 bets [$0.5].venturix calls [$0.5].tkennet folds.Scooteriten folds.kicker14111 folds.Conn48 folds.** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]venturix checks.JFarrell20 bets [$1].>You have options at Table 18361 Table!.venturix calls [$1].** Dealing River ** [ 4c ]venturix checks.JFarrell20 bets [$1].>You have options at Chip N Deal Table!.venturix raises [$2].JFarrell20: KNEW ITJFarrell20: you hit your F ing flushJFarrell20 calls [$1].venturix shows [ Kc, 3c ] a flush, ace high.JFarrell20 shows [ As, Ah ] three of a kind, aces.venturix wins $12.75 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.Game #1510282047 starts.I know i screwed up here on the end. i could have saved 2 big bets. I know, I know... I just couldn't imagine this guy was chasing a crappy flush with an ace on board. I also cant believe he had the balls to check/raise me, too. I beraded this motherF.ucker so badly. He called my pre-flop raise with K 3 suited??????????????????? WTF!?!?!?! It's not like I'm slowplaying ACES!!!Hand 3.... (this wasn't such a bad beat, just unfortunate for me. Glad I laid down on the end, though.) Let me know if you guys would have played this one differently. #Game No : 1510358760 ***** Hand History for Game 1510358760 *****$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Saturday, January 29, 15:20:17 EDT 2005Table Table 18361 (Real Money)Seat 9 is the buttonTotal number of players : 9 Seat 2: mwl23 ( $11.5 )Seat 4: KorndogOU62 ( $13 )Seat 6: PokerKat ( $19.75 )Seat 7: JFarrell20 ( $64.42 )Seat 8: Amigosgirl ( $39 )Seat 9: butaf2 ( $38 )Seat 10: eclivem13 ( $14.5 )Seat 3: nathanbarr ( $11 )Seat 5: mightymurphy ( $11 )eclivem13 posts small blind [$0.25].mwl23 posts big blind [$0.5].mightymurphy posts big blind [$0.5].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to JFarrell20 [ Kc Qs ]KorndogOU62 calls [$0.5].mightymurphy checks.PokerKat folds.JFarrell20 calls [$0.5].Amigosgirl raises [$1].butaf2 folds.eclivem13 folds.mwl23 calls [$0.5].KorndogOU62 calls [$0.5].mightymurphy calls [$0.5].JFarrell20 calls [$0.5].** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, Qd, Kd ]mwl23 checks.KorndogOU62 checks.mightymurphy checks.JFarrell20 bets [$0.5].Amigosgirl calls [$0.5].mwl23 folds.KorndogOU62 raises [$1].mightymurphy folds.JFarrell20 raises [$1].Amigosgirl calls [$1].KorndogOU62 raises [$1].JFarrell20 calls [$0.5].Amigosgirl calls [$0.5].** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]KorndogOU62 bets [$1].JFarrell20 raises [$2].Amigosgirl calls [$2].KorndogOU62 calls [$1].** Dealing River ** [ Jd ]KorndogOU62 checks.JFarrell20 checks.Amigosgirl bets [$1].KorndogOU62 calls [$1].RFlagg19 has joined the table.JFarrell20 folds.Amigosgirl shows [ Qh, Ad ] a flush, ace high.KorndogOU62 doesn't show [ Ah, Js ] a straight, ten to ace.Amigosgirl wins $18.5 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.>You have options at Chip N Deal Table!.Game #1510365895 starts.I called pre-flop b/c nobody had been raising much. The girl raised it, and I had to call b/c I was closing the pre-flop betting. I shouldn't have played it so aggressively in hindsight. I actually saved one BB on the end there, but I raised too much in the earlier rounds. That other guy actually flopped the nut straight and lost. lol. I'm just getting sick and tired of playing at this level. I really don't think I can accurately pinpoint how good I'm playing down here. My bankroll is slowly dwindling and is now down to about 150. (from initial 100 + 20 bonus).After 5.5 man-hours of play today I'm down -$18.83. Not that bad, really, but jeez, i want to show a profit!!!!!! I was three-tabling for the first time but I really don't think it affected me but in a positive way. I think I was focusing more than I do with just 1 table. I lost other big pots, too, but those were too players who I didn't blame for staying in..5/1 is just AWFUL!Any advice????????????????

[wrto4556]

#Game No : 1510358760 ***** Hand History for Game 1510358760 ***** $0.5/$1 Hold'em - Saturday, January 29, 15:20:17 EDT 2005 Table Table 18361 (Real Money) Seat 9 is the button Total number of players : 9 Seat 2: mwl23 ( $11.5 ) Seat 4: KorndogOU62 ( $13 ) Seat 6: PokerKat ( $19.75 ) Seat 7: JFarrell20 ( $64.42 ) Seat 8: Amigosgirl ( $39 ) Seat 9: butaf2 ( $38 ) Seat 10: eclivem13 ( $14.5 ) Seat 3: nathanbarr ( $11 ) Seat 5: mightymurphy ( $11 ) eclivem13 posts small blind [$0.25]. mwl23 posts big blind [$0.5]. mightymurphy posts big blind [$0.5]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to JFarrell20 [ Kc Qs ] KorndogOU62 calls [$0.5]. mightymurphy checks. PokerKat folds. JFarrell20 calls [$0.5]. Amigosgirl raises [$1]. butaf2 folds. eclivem13 folds. mwl23 calls [$0.5]. KorndogOU62 calls [$0.5]. mightymurphy calls [$0.5]. JFarrell20 calls [$0.5]. ** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, Qd, Kd ] mwl23 checks. KorndogOU62 checks. mightymurphy checks. JFarrell20 bets [$0.5]. Amigosgirl calls [$0.5]. mwl23 folds. KorndogOU62 raises [$1]. mightymurphy folds. JFarrell20 raises [$1]. Amigosgirl calls [$1]. KorndogOU62 raises [$1]. JFarrell20 calls [$0.5]. Amigosgirl calls [$0.5]. ** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ] KorndogOU62 bets [$1]. JFarrell20 raises [$2]. Amigosgirl calls [$2]. KorndogOU62 calls [$1]. ** Dealing River ** [ Jd ] KorndogOU62 checks. JFarrell20 checks. Amigosgirl bets [$1]. KorndogOU62 calls [$1]. RFlagg19 has joined the table. JFarrell20 folds. Amigosgirl shows [ Qh, Ad ] a flush, ace high. KorndogOU62 doesn't show [ Ah, Js ] a straight, ten to ace. Amigosgirl wins $18.5 from the main pot with a flush, ace high. >You have options at Chip N Deal Table!. Game #1510365895 starts. 1) You played that hand horribly.2) Don't berate people, it shows how bad you really are

[JFarrell20]

Yeah, in hindsight I played the last hand poorly. Way too aggressive. I assumed people were on flush/straight draws though. Had no idea I was pretty much drawing to 6 outs (K's and Q's). This hand was just unfortunate.I'm really talking more about the first two hands, though. Please, tell me if I played those wrong, or what...I'm really getting frustrated.And try to put personal problems aside, please WRTO. If you don't like me, don't reply at all, b/c I just can't tell if you're just trying to flame me or are being serious. Treat this post as someone you've never met.

[wrto4556]

Im not flaming! Goddamnit! :-) The KQ was a bad time to play that aggressive. There was a 3 straight on the flop, and then a 3 flush on the turn. I think you were on tilt from the hands before.And, seriously, don't berate people at the poker table. I wrote a column about this. look up "catch and release" by wrto4556

[JFarrell20]

I just have a bad Irish-temper that's all. If it was a B&M room I probably would have strangled the dude who called to the end with 88. But anyway.LOL.OK, I understand I got in over my head on a 6-outer for the nuts in a big pot... it was too aggressive. What I meant was it was an unfortunate time to flop two pairs, really. I don't recall the size of the pot but pot-odds may have dictated at least a call with 6 outs to the nuts. Not a raise, though. I'll give you that.Please comment on the first two plays though. How would you have played the KK and AA hands???BTW, wrto, what limit do you play at? Just curious.

[wrto4556]

You shouldn't have checked the set of aces. Bet that set!KK was ok I think....I have to look back on it.

[JFarrell20]

I didn't check the aces once.I bet it through. The mistake was not checking on the river b/c I had a gut feeling he hit his flush. I could have saved 2 BB's. But I didn't check it at all.No more slow-playing AA at big tables!! It's not smart!Like people who play AAAA in omaha hi. lol.

[VirginiaGent]

Well, I think everyone hates getting AA and KK cracked, but in the 2nd hand where the guy drew out to the club flush...when he called two bets pre-flop cold he could have only been hoping to get to a flush draw...once the got the nut flush draw however, you can't expect him not to draw for it...the pot was always giving him 5 to 1 or better on his bets.Certainly playing K3s pre-flop against a raiser is a stretch, but he couldn't let it go once he had the nut flush draw....just say nice hand and know that you can take him next time with better play....With the KQo hand? Alot of people saw that flop and it had alot of drawing possibilities. No wonder it hit someone.The guy with the 88 against your KK was just plain lucky...pure and simple...only two cards in the deck help him win...he got one on the river...what can you do.

[randomization]

Quote

I know i screwed up here on the end. i could have saved 2 big bets. I know, I know... I just couldn't imagine this guy was chasing a crappy flush with an ace on board. I also cant believe he had the balls to check/raise me, too. I beraded this motherF.ucker so badly. He called my pre-flop raise with K 3 suited??????????????????? WTF!?!?!?! It's not like I'm slowplaying ACES!!!

There's a problem here. 1) "I just couldn't imagine this guy was chasing a crappy flush." Once the flop hits, this guy only made one bad play, which was check-raising. The reason that check-raising is bad is that (as you pointed out) betting on the end with your hand is a really bad play. He should've bet out, assuming that you wouldn't be silly enough to bet. Of course, he got lucky that you bet when you shouldn't have. 2)"I also cant believe he had the balls to check/raise me, too"I didn't know that a check-raise was an insult. It's a poker-tactic that is perfectly legitimate, and just trying to win. You're treating it like it's the equivalent of a kick in the balls. 3)"He called my pre-flop raise with K 3 suited??????????????????? WTF!?!?!?!"You'd prefer that he played at a professional level? Trust me, you don't want that. If you're going to get mad about him playing a bad hand when he wins, you should also tell yourself that you don't deserve the money when your aces do hold up. After all, you don't think he should've been in the pot. 4) Yes, .5/1 is beatable. If you're not beating it yet,you might not have played enough hands. Keep track. If you're still losing after 3 or 5 thousand hands, it's time to start thinking it's your fault (those aren't enough to know for sure, but it's time to start thinking it's likely when you've been losing that long). You got bad beat, but your post reflects a lack of self-control and a bad way of looking at the game. Fix those things, and I think you'll find poker more fun and your results might get better too since you'll spend more time paying attention and less time being angry.

[garyf]

Bad beats happen, it's part of the game. Don't ever educate a bad player, make a note of it and get your money back. There are only two problems that I can see with your play here IMHO:1) in two cases you couldn't get away from a hand that was probably beat, even calling a reraise on an obvious made flush. Are you more worried about laying down a good hand than giving your money away?2) you're playing limit poker and expecting everyone to play no limit starting hands. These games are looser for a reason, you couldn't bet enough in either case to make it a bad call for your opponents. If you stay at the limit table you've got to accept more bad beats.

[jayboogie]

I don't know, this is low limit, but there's no way I'm checking down a set of Aces just because 3 cards to a flush are on the board. If I get raised and he has the flush, so be it. First of all, your not certain he is on a flush draw, just because he calls you down. He could have an Ace weak kicker, 2 pair, underset, pretty much anything. You can't just assume your beat because a flush possibility comes up. If you check it down, your letting your opponent off 1 big bet for having a weaker hand if he does. Anybody that checks the river with a set of Aces is losing a lot of bets they could be adding to their stack.

[JFarrell20]

wow, did I really play these hands that poorly??? Aside from the KQ hand, I know.But come on...you guys can't be serious. "I should feel bad for winning with AA?"???I don't get it. The only time I feel bad for winning a pot is when I know I screwed up and got lucky. I feel terrible when I know I played it my best and some jacka$$ gets lucky on me for a 15 BB pot. You guys must have a lot more self-control. The guy with K3 suited was only in for .25. He called .75 more with K 3 suited. I mean all this guy is looking to hit is the F-draw. And he gets it.If I slowplay these hands at all I prob. deserve to be beaten. But I didn't. I mean it gets to the point where I make a boat and I'm nervous right before they push the pot to someone... I'm like "there's just no way I won this time."I'm really getting frustrated. I've played 28 hours at this level. (I am up, not much though). And people keep saying "they'll pay you off later." It sure doesn't seem like it...I can't tell you how many times I've seen players make horrible horrible plays and win big pot after big pot.

[JFarrell20]

randomization said:

2)"I also cant believe he had the balls to check/raise me, too"I didn't know that a check-raise was an insult.  It's a poker-tactic that is perfectly legitimate, and just trying to win.  You're treating it like it's the equivalent of a kick in the balls.  

No I expect him to raise me here on the end. It just irk's me that he has the nerve to check it knowing full well I'll bet b/c I've bet it through (this makes me realize that he is FULLY AWARE that I was strong the whole way through. And he still chased.) I expect the raise though. But for this guy to check-raise me and then have to flip over K 3 suited and I see that, it just amazes me. The balls on this guy...he deserves to be berated if he check/raises and I find out he was in with K 3. If this was a brick&mortar I hope he doesn't have the balls to do that crap. "I'm gonna check-raise this "fool" on the end here, and he's gonna see that I was playing K 3 for a pre-flop raise."I mean come on. People who makes these pre-flop mistakes shouldn't be allowed to check/raise on the end.

[wrto4556]

JFarrell20 said:

randomization said:

2)"I also cant believe he had the balls to check/raise me, too"I didn't know that a check-raise was an insult.  It's a poker-tactic that is perfectly legitimate, and just trying to win.  You're treating it like it's the equivalent of a kick in the balls.  

No I expect him to raise me here on the end. It just irk's me that he has the nerve to check it knowing full well I'll bet b/c I've bet it through (this makes me realize that he is FULLY AWARE that I was strong the whole way through. And he still chased.) I expect the raise though. But for this guy to check-raise me and then have to flip over K 3 suited and I see that, it just amazes me. The balls on this guy...he deserves to be berated if he check/raises and I find out he was in with K 3. If this was a brick&mortar I hope he doesn't have the balls to do that crap. "I'm gonna check-raise this "fool" on the end here, and he's gonna see that I was playing K 3 for a pre-flop raise."I mean come on. People who makes these pre-flop mistakes shouldn't be allowed to check/raise on the end.

People whoo make these pre-flop mistakes are the people that put money in your pocket! IMO, they can do whatever they want...except learn how to play correctly. It happens...and you want it to happen! That guy is going to completely miss with K3 more times than not, and only going to get is flush 1 time in 5....you want that!! Jesus, bro. Get a grip. Come to your senses!!

[holman3rd]

wrto4556 said:

People whoo make these pre-flop mistakes are the people that put money in your pocket! IMO, they can do whatever they want...except learn how to play correctly. It happens...and you want it to happen! That guy is going to completely miss with K3 more times than not, and only going to get is flush 1 time in 5....you want that!! Jesus, bro. Get a grip. Come to your senses!!

My thoughts exactly, and articulated very well. I think that one of the biggest challenges facing new players is having to overcome the frustration of bad beats and realize that when opponents play incorrectly against you, you win in the long run. Problem is, it's hard to think about the long-term when your set of Aces just got cracked by a 1 outer for big pot.Check out Sklanky's "Fundamental Theorem of Poker" beginning on page 17 of "The Theory of Poker". As far as moving up, if you can't beat the level you're at and/or don't have the bankroll to move up, you aren't ready. However, don't let one losing session be the measure of whether you can beat this level. Track every session over, say, 10,000 hands, and evaluate your performance then. I suggest PokerTracker to help with this.

[Smasharoo]

My bankroll is slowly dwindling and is now down to about 150. (from initial 100 + 20 bonus). Gee, no one saw that coming....oh wait.

[JFarrell20]

that's after 31 hours of play so I'm right around 1BB/hr still.

[holman3rd]

JFarrell20 said:

that's after 31 hours of play so I'm right around 1BB/hr still.

31 hours is approx 1,200-1,800 hands (online)...nowhere near enough to draw any meaningful conclusions.

[randomization]

Your comments indicate that you don't get it at all. The guy's playing K3-suited pre-flop against the raise was a mistake. But once the flop comes, he's not "chasing" as you put it. Chasing is defined as calling bets without the odds to justify it. But on every hand after the river he's getting the odds to call with his nut-flush draw. You talk about him knowing that you're strong but he still chased. That's irrelevant. It doesn't matter how strong you are, so long as he wins if he hits his hand, and he's getting the pot odds. A flush beats three of a kind as well as it beats two pair, one pair, or high-card.

[JFarrell20]

OK, random. You're right. I should be glad I lost this hand. I'm sure you'd love it. You'd tell yourself "Wow, what a great play by him. I bet that guy could teach me a thing or two."The point is he should have never called the pre-flop raise. I don't care if he's the blind or not.Jeez, gimme a break man. I'm looking for a little sympathy here