12 replies to this topic

[benhoug]

So I'm not a big fan of slowplaying many hands. 9 times out of 10 I feel like I'll get more action if I bet it, so I don't do it very often. I do, however, feel like there is a time and place for it. This weekend I was playing a $20 sit and go when the following hand came up. I picked the time to slowplay a big hand. What do you think of the play?Blinds were $300/$600. We were 3-handed, and pretty close in chip counts. I was in the SB and the BB had me covered by a couple hundred chips.I was dealt J 8 and completed the blind.The flop came down Q 9 10 .I hadn't flopped the nuts, but given that we were 3-handed I was going to take a chance on this one - There was no flush draw and I had the 2nd nuts. If he had KJ, so be it. If this hand played out the way I wanted it to I'd have about 2/3 of the chips heads-up against the other player, and I liked my chances of winning.I checked and he made a smallish bet and I called.The turn card was a small which put a flush draw out there, but I was still pretty confident in my hand, so I checked and just called again. The river was an absolutely horrible , but I wasn't about to give up on this pot as it had now grown pretty large. I made a pot-sized bet and my opponent moved in on me (with a raise of about the same size as my bet).At this point I was kicking myself for the way I played the hand, but there was no way I was going to lay this down. If I was beat, I was beat. But I feel the play gave me the best chance to win the tournament.Anyone have any thoughts???

[Swift_Psycho]

If you are going to play it this slow, don't freakin' bet the river. Just check and reassess. Probably just call another river bet and don't check/raise.I'd probably have check/raised the turn though, I really dislike your slowplay. If you had the nut straight, it would be slightly different, but you are going to want to kick yourself in the balls if a J hits on the river.

[copernicus]

The only way slowplaying buys anything is if theres a made hand that is going to try to outprice straight draws. You made your best attempt at that by checking the flop. When he doesnt come back with a bet that looks like its intended to do that (you say "smallish", which could mean a lot), then you probably arent going to get any action.I think the largest payoff without undue risk is reraising his flop bet with an overbet. If that gets called then hes got something he thinks he cant get away from...a draw to a boat, a pair and a draw to the nut straight, or the nut straight. The spade on the turn is irrelevant if he calls an overbet on the flop.You say you check and called the turn..how much was the bet? If it was up to about 1/3 of the pot I would suspect its is a value bet to his draws with some fold equity. If its between 1/3 and the size of the pot then Id be very concerned about the nut straight. If its an all in or similarly large bet Id have to go with my read on whether he's capable of semi-bluffing in this situation. I think that read would be easier after putting him under some pressure pre-flop.

[Swift_Psycho]

copernicus said:

If its an all in or similarly large bet Id have to go with my read on whether he's capable of semi-bluffing in this situation. I think that read would be easier after putting him under some pressure pre-flop.

Post-flop?

[copernicus]

Swift_Psycho said:

copernicus said:

If its an all in or similarly large bet Id have to go with my read on whether he's capable of semi-bluffing in this situation. I think that read would be easier after putting him under some pressure pre-flop.

Post-flop?

yes..on the flop. thanks

[benhoug]

The only reason I chose to slowplay this one was b/c it was near the final stages of a SNG. At this point the blinds are signifigant (compared to stacks) and people tend to go the distance w/ really marginal hands. If this guy had 2nd pair I could see him playing this way, and trying to bluff on the end when he didn't improve.As far as his bets, I'm pretty sure it was the minimum amt. on each street. Pre-flop I complete, he checks. there was 1200 in the pot.Flop he bet 300 I called - 1800 in pot.Turn he bet 600 I called - 3000 in pot.River I bet 2500 he moves in for an additional 2500 I call and he shows 6 3 for the ugliest runner-runner flush in the history of poker. OK, maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but still, it was a hard pill to swallow.In hindsight I probably should have check-raised on either the flop or turn, but I didn't want to win an 1800 or 3000 chip pot. I wanted to double through this guy and have a lock on the tournament. As I said in the original post, I knew I was making a somewhat risky play (on the turn) but I felt I was giving myself the best chance to win the tournament. It sort of backfired though...

[JacKingOff_suit]

Ask yourself if you have this leak.When we are way ahead on the flop or turn, we tend to slowplay by merely calling or do a little raising. By the river when we are suddenly turned into unfavorite, then we come out betting, BIG! and if our villain comes back on top, we usually have to call because we can't let go of our ex-pretty hands and we are "pot-committed".

[copernicus]

As I said...bets of that size scream of his having draws and he's retaining his drawing odds along with some fold equity. He really should have had a better hand than he did for that kind of play on the flop, but it was the right size bet on the turn.I still cant see you getting paid off big on this hand by slowplaying.

[Rocketwadster]

Terrible time to pick a slowplay IMO, and I hate your river bet/call. You want to know a better time to slowplay? When you have quads. This was not the flop to be doing it with IMO. Not sure how the table has been playing up until then, but many reasonable (and even some unreasonable) hands were given a very cheap way to beat you, which I don't think is a good thing to do. 8)

[benhoug]

JacKingOff_suit said:

Ask yourself if you have this leak.When we are way ahead on the flop or turn, we tend to slowplay by merely calling or do a little raising. By the river when we are suddenly turned into unfavorite, then we come out betting, BIG! and if our villain comes back on top, we usually have to call because we can't let go of our ex-pretty hands and we are "pot-committed".

I can't stress enough that the only reason I did this b/c it was in the VERY LATE stages of a SNG. Trust me, I do not make a habit of slowplaying anything. This isn't anywhere near being a leak in my game. I saw the opportunity to double up, and it simply didn't work out.

[JacKingOff_suit]

benhoug said:

JacKingOff_suit said:

Ask yourself if you have this leak.When we are way ahead on the flop or turn, we tend to slowplay by merely calling or do a little raising. By the river when we are suddenly turned into unfavorite, then we come out betting, BIG! and if our villain comes back on top, we usually have to call because we can't let go of our ex-pretty hands and we are "pot-committed".

I can't stress enough that the only reason I did this b/c it was in the VERY LATE stages of a SNG. Trust me, I do not make a habit of slowplaying anything. This isn't anywhere near being a leak in my game. I saw the opportunity to double up, and it simply didn't work out.

But you are not maximizing your gain when you are ahead, and you've given villain all the odds to outdraw you. Also at SnG later stages, you can't afford to slowplay a bit, really, you want to win or steal as many chips as possible on each street. I once flopped the nut str8 then got outdrawn by the boat (villain flopped the set) on the river and since then I never slow played my hand during late stages, the more aggressive the better.

[Rocketwadster]

JacKingOff_suit said:

I once flopped the nut str8 then got outdrawn by the boat (villain flopped the set) on the river and since then I never slow played my hand during late stages, the more aggressive the better.

Not really an ideal hand to comment on IMO, as the top set probably wouldn't have folded anyhow (I wasn't there, so who knows)...I agree completely with everything else you have said in THIS thread. 8)

[JacKingOff_suit]

On a second thought, say in general, you want to trap you villain by letting him bluff away his chips on the flop and turn. By the river, the hunter becomes hunted, your bet is the worst bet in my opinion. If your villain didn't have a flush, you think he will be calling you? You need to exercise discipline on the river.