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different advice from different forums. (plo8)


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#41 Smasharoo

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 09:11 AM

Wow, Lame!May I suggest for your next Avatar.... Seem not funny at all. Not even vaguely.

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Sure thing.Thanks for the car.good luck.
Fucking genius.This would be an object lesson in why some people get paid to write and why you don't.

#42 hartman72

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 09:29 AM

Smasharoo said:

That seems perfectly appropriate. Thanks.Sure thing.Thanks for the car.good luck.
Haha-- one of the all time funniest quotes I've seen so far

#43 JacKingOff_suit

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 10:34 AM

rainaruby, do you chat often and do you play 10/20 LHE 6-max at PP?I knew this thread would be entertaining when I dropped the 40 kilo car bomb. :club:

#44 Mendacious

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:27 AM

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Seem not funny at all. Not even vaguely.
Very professional writing. Perhaps one of your keys is stuck from all the self-love you give yourself on the computer.Way to leave visual part of the joke out. Did they teach you that at journalism school?I don't know which is more flaming bs, you claiming to be a professional writer, or taking 40K off of Wintermute.PS Comic books don't count.

#45 Kendren

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:31 AM

Mendacious said:

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Seem not funny at all. Not even vaguely.
Very professional writing. Perhaps one of your keys is stuck from all the self-love you give yourself on the computer.I don't know which is more flaming bs, you as a professional writer, or taking 40K off of Wintermute.PS Comic books don't count.
Is Wintermute your gay lover, or do you just enjoy hopping forums to breathlessly defend your chosen man?If it's the former, there's a few guys in General who would be happy to meet you.

#46 Mendacious

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:40 AM

I point out what a phony Smash is, therefore I must be gay. I see the logic. This explains a lot.

#47 Smasharoo

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:45 AM

Very professional writing. Perhaps one of your keys is stuck from all the self-love you give yourself on the computer.I'm dyslexic. You sick bastard, picking on someone's disability. I bet you kick crippled kids out of their wheelchairs, too, don't you?What happened to make you so insecure, man? Your mother dressed you up like Shirley Temple until you were 35, huh? That's it, isn't it? Man, I'm good at reading people.good luck.

#48 Kendren

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:47 AM

Mendacious said:

I point out what a phony Smash is, therefore I must be gay. I see the logic. This explains a lot.
You made your point. Why are you belaboring it? Apparently, there are many here who don't give one good fuck about whether or not he's a phony. Why is it such a priority for you?

#49 Chamonyx

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 12:15 PM

JacKingOff_suit said:

rainaruby, do you chat often and do you play 10/20 LHE 6-max at PP?I knew this thread would be entertaining when I dropped the 40 kilo car bomb. :club:
and is your Missouri address your third home?

#50 Rocketwadster

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 12:18 PM

JWeb, can you delete this post, or move it to General where it (now) belongs? The childish banter back and forth isnt helping anyone...

#51 econ_tim

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 12:26 PM

I don't see why 2+2ers are being so territorial about their PLO8 forum.The game is not that complicated. Granted, I'm just learning it, but I think it is easier to beat than LHE. Probably also easier to master.Second, why can't they admit that the hand in question comes down to what range of hands we put Villain on, conditional on him repotting the flop. A few 2+2ers have talked about hand ranges, but they won't consider the Villain's hand range could be one against we're a big enough dog to fold here. There's no way to put the Villain on a tight range of hands from the information in the OP, but at least concede that some Villains at the $100 level will be raising with strong cards here and that it is not too hard to tell what types of players do this.Third, what is the point of calling out FCP players (as one 2+2 poster has done) and suggesting that players taunt certain screennames at the table? I'd expect this from NWP or some other "cool kids" site, but I guess some 2+2ers are online badasses as well.

#52 Smasharoo

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 12:38 PM

The game is not that complicated. Granted, I'm just learning it, but I think it is easier to beat than LHE. Probably also easier to master.This is exactly right.It's much less coplicated than Holdem in a lot of ways.

#53 Wintermute

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 12:49 PM

econ_tim said:

I don't see why 2+2ers are being so territorial about their PLO8 forum.The game is not that complicated. Granted, I'm just learning it, but I think it is easier to beat than LHE. Probably also easier to master.
Nobody from 2+2 would disagree with this (that PLO8 is easy). However, there are many ways to skin the PLO8 cat, and since the general consensus on this forum seems to favor a much tighter, less aggressive strategy than you would find at 2+2, a discussion about which approach is optimal (or closer to optimal) seems mutually beneficial.

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Second, why can't they admit that the hand in question comes down to what range of hands we put Villain on, conditional on him repotting the flop. A few 2+2ers have talked about hand ranges, but they won't consider the Villain's hand range could be one against we're a big enough dog to fold here. There's no way to put the Villain on a tight range of hands from the information in the OP, but at least concede that some Villains at the $100 level will be raising with strong cards here and that it is not too hard to tell what types of players do this.
The repotting on the flop condition is taken into account; nobody is arguing that we assign the same range of hands to the villian that we would based on the preflop action alone... Put it this way; some villians at the $100 levels will indeed only be raising here with hands that have OP's hand dominated; however, only the tighest postflop players fall into this category, and they are by far in the minority at all levels of partypoker, especially the middle limits. Barring a specific player read like this, it is definitely the case that assigning a range of hands that makes a call here wrong is a mistake that will cause suboptimal winrate in the long run (although it will have the benefit of reducing your variance, which may be desirable if there are bankroll concerns). There is no way to prove this, but experience will bear this truth out. Even in the case where I knew the player was tight postflop, however, I think the range of possible hands is wide enough to merit a call on the grounds of not only EV but also table image and other meta-game issues. That last point, I concede, is definitely debatable.

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Third, what is the point of calling out FCP players (as one 2+2 poster has done) and suggesting that players taunt certain screennames at the table? I'd expect this from NWP or some other "cool kids" site, but I guess some 2+2ers are online badasses as well.
I agree that this aspect of the thread has grown pointless, but I'll defend my initial right to unmask an obvious lie directed personally at me, which I've now done to my complete satisfaction.

#54 Chamonyx

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 12:53 PM

Wintermute said:

it is definitely the case that assigning a range of hands that makes a call here wrong is a mistake that will cause suboptimal winrate in the long run (although it will have the benefit of reducing your variance, which may be desirable if there are bankroll concerns). There is no way to prove this, but experience will bear this truth out. Even in the case where I knew the player was tight postflop, however, I think the range of possible hands is wide enough to merit a call on the grounds of not only EV but also table image and other meta-game issues. That last point, I concede, is definitely debatable.
So you are not advocating getting it all in on the flop then?

#55 Wintermute

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:00 PM

Chamonyx said:

So you are not advocating getting it all in on the flop then?
Oops, meant to say raise. All-in if possible.

#56 econ_tim

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:09 PM

Wintermute said:

However, there are many ways to skin the PLO8 cat, and since the general consensus on this forum seems to favor a much tighter, less aggressive strategy than you would find at 2+2, a discussion about which approach is optimal (or closer to optimal) seems mutually beneficial.
I don't think there is any consensus at FCP on PLO8 strategy. The Omaha forum was created about five weaks ago (link) and is probably one of the least frequented forums on FCP. There have been more hands posted in recent days, so maybe interest is growing and regular discussions will start.

#57 Mendacious

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:21 PM

I have no general beef with FCP. I'm a huge Negreanu fan. I'm not totally sold on the level of aggressive play at 2+2, but, that a whole forum would advocate folding that hand seems pretty far out to me. That seems like a little too defensive poker to me. For my part, I posted because I was interested in the credibility of someone who acts like he knows it all. I've learned all I need to know about him. I don't always agree with Wintermute, (and don't play much shorthanded) but I greatly respect the integrity of his posts. Honesty is probably the most important part of self-evaluation and improvement. People who post with smug dishonesty have little to teach anyone. You can draw your own conclusions about it.

#58 Wintermute

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:26 PM

econ_tim said:

I don't think there is any consensus at FCP on PLO8 strategy. The Omaha forum was created about five weaks ago (link) and is probably one of the least frequented forums on FCP. There have been more hands posted in recent days, so maybe interest is growing and regular discussions will start.
The beginning of this thread suggests a pretty clear general mindset.

#59 DrawingDeadInDM

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:39 PM

As a lurker, to the strategy section, and someone who's trying to learn PLO8, I'd like to point out, that amongst all the childish shit flinging, there's been a lot of really good poker talk. Thank you all for that. Smash, Wintermute, Chamonyx and all.
I'm also fed up with the common cold but I just hate to say goodbye.

#60 JacKingOff_suit

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:44 PM

Guys, we are all online PLO8 players trying to improve our game, be it one way or another. Sometimes we open ourself to hear the opposites of the truth, sometimes we don't because our stupid fucking ego. Just like sometimes we post to defend our egos more than our strategies, but don't let that ego dictates your plo8 plays. Sometimes we play with our ego, and sometimes we play sloppy like shit, but I do hope that most of us will play our A games most of the time, be it one way or another.With that said, I am not a FCP defender nor I am a 2+2 trasher. I defend what I believe what are the best plays, but most of the time I love to hear different options (like gergery's, and I think Wintermute is offering solid advice and is getting more and more objective), I will think about the advice posted and take what's right for me (Just like while I like to read Smash's posts, sometimes I like to play the opposite to find the optimal ways of playing), and I am sorry if I've offended any 2+2 posters. If I don't value 2+2's posts, I won't be a frequent visitor there. I do learn from Wintermute, Gergery, Ribbo,... there. Thank you guys.Now go back to the PLO8 tables and make some serious money. Enough bullshit.




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