plo8, ugly turn

[dank773 0]

Do I bet out with this one again?PLO8 $1-$2Dank: $185MP: $182BB: $157I'm on the button with A 3 K K . One limper, I raise to $6, BB calls, MP calls. BB is a good player, I've played with him a lot, don't know muc about MP. I'm not sure about the raise preflop.Flop is 5 4 9 . BB bets $9.50, MP calls, Dank pots it to $63, BB calls, MP calls. Great flop for me, and I was really suprised that there were two callers on my raise. Turn is the 9 . BB checks, MP checks, Dank...Very ugly card for me, I know the BB doesn't usually slow play, so I don't think that this card helped him, but I don't have any notes on MP to know if he's smart/dumb enough to check a FH here. Your thoughts?

[checkymcfold 0]

Do I bet out with this one again?PLO8 $1-$2Dank: $185MP: $182BB: $157I'm on the button with A 3 K K . One limper, I raise to $6, BB calls, MP calls. BB is a good player, I've played with him a lot, don't know muc about MP. I'm not sure about the raise preflop.Flop is 5 4 9 . BB bets $9.50, MP calls, Dank pots it to $63, BB calls, MP calls. Great flop for me, and I was really suprised that there were two callers on my raise. Turn is the 9 . BB checks, MP checks, Dank...Very ugly card for me, I know the BB doesn't usually slow play, so I don't think that this card helped him, but I don't have any notes on MP to know if he's smart/dumb enough to check a FH here. Your thoughts?

barring any prior reads, i'd say your MP friend is most likely sitting on A2, and the 9 didn't help. if you're pretty sure that BB isn't going to CR his boat, then potting it again isn't terrible. even if you think that BB is "a good player," i'd say that 7/10 times he's drawing to a nut low as well. of course, "doesn't usually slowplay" and "doesn't slowplay ever" are different things, and this is a difference of the utmost importance for situations like this.i'd say you have to bet something here, as any decent player who sees you check behind here is going to throw a big bet at you on the river regardless of what s/he has, since a check says "i have the ace flush, and now i'm scared of a boat." i'd say your best option is to throw out somewhere in the range of 30 with the intention of checking the river behind. the bet is safer than you'd think; usually the cold call of a HUGE bet on the flop means a draw to a low, which, with any luck, both your pals here are looking for.i'm curious as to how this ended up... i'm guessing you got boated up on, since you're posting the hand, but i don't know what else you could do here. folding is pretty terrible, and checking in situations like this will kill you in most even pseudo-aggressive games.EDIT: whoops, i forgot to mention what you do if you get CRed on this turn. if it's a push, i think a fold is justified, no matter how much it sucks.

[Chamonyx 0]

Ouch, bummer You had 2 calls of your pot bet on the flop, so unless both players are absolute dorks, one of them should be full by now and is waiting for you to bet again.The benefit of position is....that you don't have to. Take the free card and only put more $ into this pot if a 2 or a K come on the river.

[Rocketwadster 0]

a bet here is useless IMO, and can only lead to trouble. What are you going to do if they pot it after your bet? Right now, there is nothing to say you are baet, but there is nothing to say you are ahead right now for the high. It will all come down to reads if you don't improve on the river (you will win with a king, plus you may win if another nine comes.)Check and see what the river brings. 8)

[thebolb33 0]

Ouch, bummer You had 2 calls of your pot bet on the flop, so unless both players are absolute dorks, one of them should be full by now and is waiting for you to bet again.The benefit of position is....that you don't have to. Take the free card and only put more $ into this pot if a 2 or a K come on the river.

Yeah but then your faced with the big bet that any good player makes when a dud bricks off the river. In addition your giving A2 (a likely holding for your opponents) a free look. You gotta make a bet...

[Kendren 1]

Yeah but then your faced with the big bet that any good player makes when a dud bricks off the river. In addition your giving A2 (a likely holding for your opponents) a free look. You gotta make a bet...

Why? What calls you on the flop that doesn't have you killed here? Maybe one of them has Qx Spades, but do you think both have lower flushes?What if one sitting on A2, the other 55? You're drawing to 3 outs to get HALF. Not a good position. They're offering you a free river. Take it. It's decisions like what you're advocating that make me a LOT of money.

[Chamonyx 0]

Yeah but then your faced with the big bet that any good player makes when a dud bricks off the river. In addition your giving A2 (a likely holding for your opponents) a free look. You gotta make a bet...

And when the river bricks and the bet comes, you let the guy with the bigger boat win the pot - which has no more of your money in it. The only hands that can (OK, should have) called your flop bet that you can beat were A2/3Ksx, A245, A26s7s, A2s3sx, A23s6s. A2 or A3 with 44,55,99, 49,59 have you in a lot of trouble and even a single 9 has 6-10 outs. Against one player it would probably make sense to have another go, but against 2 you are in trouble.

[checkymcfold 0]

Yeah but then your faced with the big bet that any good player makes when a dud bricks off the river. In addition your giving A2 (a likely holding for your opponents) a free look. You gotta make a bet...

Why? What calls you on the flop that doesn't have you killed here? Maybe one of them has Qx Spades, but do you think both have lower flushes?What if one sitting on A2, the other 55? You're drawing to 3 outs to get HALF. Not a good position. They're offering you a free river. Take it. It's decisions like what you're advocating that make me a LOT of money.

A2xx and A3xx call you here in like 99% of o/8 games i play, up to like 5/10 pl.if you're giving away pots every time scare cards fall, i'll be the guy taking your money every time i get a solid read on you, like this hand. sometimes i'll say "thanks" in the chat, just to be patronizing.bet, and fold to a CR. there are things called bets for info, and this is precisely the sort of situation they're meant for. you can't just completely give up on a 200 dollar pot just because a scary card fell. also, if you bet again, even small-ish, a boat is probably calling you with the intention of raising the river, assuming it's the nuts. a small-ish bet here doesn't cost you much relative to the pot size and has a decent chance of getting you a free showdown. keep in mind, you've still got outs on the river even if you're beat, which you may not be. a 2 gets you a share, and a K gets you the whole thing. granted, that's like 10%, but your bet should be about 20% of the pot, which--with your chance of winning estimated not at 0% but at 50%-ish--is a perfectly reasonable bet.

[ahosang 0]

By my calculation, the pot is ~$205 and Hero has ~$120 left(covering both opponents). Surely that might come into it.....

[Kendren 1]

A2xx and A3xx call you here in like 99% of o/8 games i play, up to like 5/10 pl.if you're giving away pots every time scare cards fall, i'll be the guy taking your money every time i get a solid read on you, like this hand. sometimes i'll say "thanks" in the chat, just to be patronizing.bet, and fold to a CR. there are things called bets for info, and this is precisely the sort of situation they're meant for. you can't just completely give up on a 200 dollar pot just because a scary card fell.  also, if you bet again, even small-ish, a boat is probably calling you with the intention of raising the river, assuming it's the nuts. a small-ish bet here doesn't cost you much relative to the pot size and has a decent chance of getting you a free showdown. keep in mind, you've still got outs on the river even if you're beat, which you may not be. a 2 gets you a share, and a K gets you the whole thing. granted, that's like 10%, but your bet should be about 20% of the pot, which--with your chance of winning estimated not at 0% but at 50%-ish--is a perfectly reasonable bet.

So basically, you're saying commit more to this pot, even though we could very well be drawing to 2 outs to scoop, and 3 to split, rather than take the free card to find out. Okay.

[checkymcfold 0]

if you're giving away pots every time scare cards fall, i'll be the guy taking your money every time i get a solid read on you, like this hand. sometimes i'll say "thanks" in the chat, just to be patronizing.

so yes, yes i am.this is a big pot. don't give it to someone who will gladly take it if you're playing weak/tight. losing 30 more bucks for a free showdown or folding to a CR is an easy play.

[dank773 0]

My main concerns about what I viewed my options here wereCheck: I'm giving up the pot unless I see a 2 or a K on the river. Any other card, I'm forced to fold to a big betBet pot: This would have been more than enough to put all three of us all in, and I don't want to bet this much in the event that I'm already dominatedSmaller bet: Appears weak and screams "I have a flush but that card really scared me" in which case I'd fold to a CRAny how, for what happened, I bet enough to put either of the other two all in, BB called, and MP folded, river was a brick. BB had 6 7 xx, for a flush with an open ended straight flush draw, so I ended up taking the whole thing. I guess my read of the BB as a solid player was slightly off, but my thinking was that since they both checked the turn, I might be able to take the pot right there, and I was really surprised the BB check/called, and I have no idea what MP could have been playing. I'm still not sure if this was the right play, even though it ended up a winner.