a3s flop; a3s river

[screech 0]

Hand 1:No reads.Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: screech is UTG+1 with [Ac], [3c]. UTG calls, screech calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (6 SB) [2s], [Kc], [4h] (6 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG betsI think this flop is pretty standard. Just wondering what you guys would do.Hand 2:This table is playing loose-passive.Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: screech is CO with [3d], [Ad]. UTG calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (5 SB) [Ac], [5c], [6h] (5 players)SB bets, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls, screech calls.Turn: (4 BB) [4c] (3 players)SB bets, MP1 calls, screech calls.River: (7 BB) [7h] (3 players)SB bets, screech...Should I raise anywhere in this hand?Should I call this river?

[BeanGW 0]

OK... Here are some random thoughts. I warn you, I need my nap. :wink: Hand 1: I think.... Raise to clean up those Ace outs. With a gutshot and backdoor draw, there are a lot of cards on the turn that are good for you.Hand 2: I probably fold the river for two. I can't imagine you are better than a split pot here at best, and it's certainly possible that MP hit his flush (or straight) on the turn and wanted your overcall.

[akishore 0]

hand 1 - small pot, standard call, raising is spewing.hand 2 - i fold the turn, small pot, any A-x but A-2 beats us. if you see the river, this is an easy fold.aseem

[Actuary 3]

raise 1: get it HU, get free card, 8.5 outs....clean up ace outs...hand 2: raise turn, call river reluctantly.eidt: ooops..missed flush....dont raise turn, dont call riveri may be bad.

[speedz99 145]

Does anyone else think hand one is a terrible preflop call? Cold calling a weak ace (suited or not) from early position=trouble IMO. Are you folding to a raise? To a 3-bet?

[akishore 0]

you guys are making a big mistake in raising the flop.you have one overcard, estimated at 1.5 outs. your backdoor flush is 1.5 outs. 4 outs for the gutshot.with 7 outs, you should continue.but, this is a small pot. getting it heads-up and putting in 2 SB with 1-to-1 on your money is a big losing proposition, and since it's a big pot, buying an extra 1.5 outs does *not* make up for the loss.i also fold the turn in hand 2, but this decision is closer. it's basically since you can't beat any A-x but A-2, and you can only hope to tie with those. add in the possibilities that you're drawing dead or way behind, and i think this is a fold in this small pot.aseem

[akishore 0]

Does anyone else think hand one is a terrible preflop call? Cold calling a weak ace (suited or not) from early position=trouble IMO. Are you folding to a raise? To a 3-bet?

no one raised preflop.aseem

[speedz99 145]

Does anyone else think hand one is a terrible preflop call? Cold calling a weak ace (suited or not) from early position=trouble IMO. Are you folding to a raise? To a 3-bet?

no one raised preflop.aseem

Hence the questions of what he would have done if they had...EDIT: by cold calling I guess I meant limping

[Actuary 3]

Does anyone else think hand one is a terrible preflop call? Cold calling a weak ace (suited or not) from early position=trouble IMO. Are you folding to a raise? To a 3-bet?

I do it.so no, it's a great play.Actually, I love suited Aces. Super visibility.Not folding to 1 more back to me, even HU pf.Probably folding to 2 back to me unless I feel strongly it'll be 5+ way..or lots of dead money has folded.

[speedz99 145]

Let's go here, people.Screech and Aseem, do you agree with Actuary that you should be limping preflop out of position with Axs? And if so (well, if so I disagree) what criteria do you have for calling a raise or reraise?Frankly, I'm surprised you guys are advocating this. I was under a strong impression that it's a -EV play. I could be wrong...

[akishore 0]

nah, limping with Axs UTG is standard.at least, it should be in the games you're playing. if it's -EV, you should probably get up and find a better game.just like any other hand, you don't fold to one raise back to you, basically ever. two back to me, it's generally a fold unless you know that the pot will be quite multiway (like five- or six-).aseem

[speedz99 145]

Well this changes things for me...

[CobaltBlue 662]

speedz, if the game is loose (passive helps too) pre-flop, limping with Axs from most positions is pretty profitable.

[speedz99 145]

speedz, if the game is loose (passive helps too) pre-flop, limping with Axs from most positions is pretty profitable.

So is it safe to say that most Party tables up to 3-6 are good for this advice?

[CobaltBlue 662]

I'd imagine so, though my Party experience is quite limited. It's a fine play at Bodog 1/2 through 3/6.

[screech 0]

Hand 1:I raised. As aseem pointed out, the pot is not large. In a large pot, this would be an easy raise. In a pot a bit smaller, an easy call. Here however, I raised for a few reasons:1) The pot really big, but it isn't that small either. 7sb is right in the middle. 2) The flop bettor likely has a king w/o an ace or a medium pp. The board is very uncoordinated, so it's unlikely that my raise will be called by anyone else. Also, the nature of the board makes it very unlikely that the villian has 2 pair. Against the flop bettor alone, I have about 8 clean outs on the flop. Even if I miss the flop, I still have between 6-7 outs on the turn HU. If I let the rest of the field call, my outs probably dip to 4 on the turn if I miss my flush, and I would have to fold UI.3) I raise could easily buy me a free card on the turn. Again, due to the uncoordinated nature of this board, it is unlikely that a monster is out there, and that it will be checked to me on the turn. Getting to see 2 cards for 1bb would be great for my hand.Anyway, I raised and everyone folded to UTG who called. My gutshot connected on the flop, and it went check-bet-call the rest of the way.Hand 2:In retrospect, I should have folded this turn. On a 3-flush and 3-straight board, my hand is pretty weak. Anyway, I folded the river and MP1 showed 33 for the bottom end of the straight! He won. I guess all river raises aren't created equally.

[pokerkid 0]

Sorry for being a dumbass, but what do you guys mean when you say raise to clean up the ace outs?

[CobaltBlue 662]

Sorry for being a dumbass, but what do you guys mean when you say raise to clean up the ace outs?

It means that if someone has an ace with a better kicker, we'd like to drive them out. Thus, if we turn or river an ace, we'll take the pot instead of giving it up to that better ace.