11 replies to this topic

[RrutRoe]

I get this a lot, maybe I am playing too many hands, but I will limp in with a hand like A2s hoping for a flush possibility. The flop comes up Q82 rainbow with no possiblity of a backdoor flush. So I have the bottom pair. I check and someone bets, I call. I miss on the turn and they bet again....Anyway my question is, should I even play past the flop with bottom pair in hopes of making a set or two pair, and if I should, how far do I go? turn? River? I guess it depends on how aggressive the betting is, but if they are small bets do I keep calling and hope for the best?How the better players play these?

[DwayneWayne]

Axs. Fold in all positions but Cut-off (maybe), and Button, play in the blinds for no raises, you will be out of postion!you said you check and then call a bet, that means you are playing this in early postion. Why?Axs is not a good hand and sounds like its a huge leak. The only time bottom pair with no draws (2 pair draws don't count) should only be played heads up with position.Your better off folding pre-flop and save the bets for better opportunities.

[Spidurman]

weak aces are pretty much sucker hands in holdem - you'll hit the flush about 1/6 of the time. If you can get 5:1 on your money - go for it.As far as flopping bottom pair - under any scenario its a check/fold. Just not worth wasting your time on. Its 10:1 to spike the set if you see the last two cards, and its not worth it.You're probably playing too many hands and playing them too far - good poker is alot of folding and waiting. (I wish I could say it was fun and all about playing every pot, but its not)

[RrutRoe]

DwayneWayne said:

you said you check and then call a bet, that means you are playing this in early postion. Why?.

I guess thats a big problem I have. That Axs looks so promising to me. Something I need to work on.Thanks for the advise.

[Wilderness]

RrutRoe said:

I get this a lot, maybe I am playing too many hands, but I will limp in with a hand like A2s hoping for a flush possibility. The flop comes up Q82 rainbow with no possiblity of a backdoor flush. So I have the bottom pair. I check and someone bets, I call. I miss on the turn and they bet again....Anyway my question is, should I even play past the flop with bottom pair in hopes of making a set or two pair, and if I should, how far do I go? turn? River? I guess it depends on how aggressive the betting is, but if they are small bets do I keep calling and hope for the best?How the better players play these?

As others have already said, you definitely don't want to be playing those kind of hands very often. However, when you do get them (in the blinds most likely) and get to see a cheap flop, then you have to decide how to play it. What you never want to do is check, then call, check then call, etc. Most of the time, you'll just want to be checking and folding to a bet. If you think that the other person(people) in the hand didn't hit anything either, you certainly might want to bet out, or go for the check raise to try and fake being strong. But if someone keeps calling you in those cases or you are re-raised, then you lay it down. Keep in mind, you aren't betting out or check-raising in order to stay around and try and hit trips or two pair, you are just doing it because you think you can take the pot down.

[Spidurman]

RrutRoe said:

DwayneWayne said:

you said you check and then call a bet, that means you are playing this in early postion. Why?.

I guess thats a big problem I have. That Axs looks so promising to me. Something I need to work on.Thanks for the advise.

Approach it from this angle - what can I have the nuts with: two pair (anyone can flop two pair with any two cards - and your second pair is vulnerable on many boards to any another ace)set - if you're trying to flop 22x or AAx - good luck (rare)straight (no you can't - all you can make is the bottom end of a wheel )flush - that's the only good thing really.Also remember that everyone else likes Ax too, and they will always have a bigger X than you - which is very deadly. Knowing how your kicker plays is crucial in holdem

[Eskimo]

Bottom pair is crap. If someone raises then fold. And never try to chase trips or 2 pair.

[jayistheman]

in NL sometimes i will take a flyer with bottom pair for 2 reasons....1. i feel i can move them off their hand on the turn or the river... its a good time to try a delayed bluff... you can just call on the flop, and if you dont improve you can fire away.2. im drawing to 5 outs for implied odds.... as long as what your drawing to is good, mind you. i will do this to "solid" (haha) players who overbet hands like top pair... you can really rail them if you improve. needless to say, most of the time i have to outplay them because i dont improve.... a good table image and some good timing help alot... but usually in NLHE i take small pots with bluffs and large pots with the nuts...

[Stewy]

I wouldn't risk losing money in a pot where you can't win anything. Ace Rag suited is one of my favorite hands to play when 5 or more people are seeing a flop. The only way I ever call with bottom pair is if I am getting better than 12-1 on my money and I am certain all my outs are live. Ofcourse there may be times heads up when you play it for the best hand. I only play for even money when I think I am close to a 2-1 favorite. This is just my opinion, there will always be a better spot to stick your money in the pot.

[RrutRoe]

Thanks everyone for all the great advise. I played in a tourney at pokerschool yesterday and finished at the final table (6th out of 64), and I resisted playing Axs too much. The few times I did play it was when the table was small and I raised it, making it appeared that I had a stronger hand than I had and if I was rereaised, I folded without losing too much.

[Spidurman]

RrutRoe said:

Thanks everyone for all the great advise. I played in a tourney at pokerschool yesterday and finished at the final table (6th out of 64), and I resisted playing Axs too much. The few times I did play it was when the table was small and I raised it, making it appeared that I had a stronger hand than I had and if I was rereaised, I folded without losing too much.

Nice job

[copernicus]

Stewy said:

I wouldn't risk losing money in a pot where you can't win anything. Ace Rag suited is one of my favorite hands to play when 5 or more people are seeing a flop. The only way I ever call with bottom pair is if I am getting better than 12-1 on my money and I am certain all my outs are live. Ofcourse there may be times heads up when you play it for the best hand. I only play for even money when I think I am close to a 2-1 favorite. This is just my opinion, there will always be a better spot to stick your money in the pot.

If you are passing on situations where you are getting more than twice your proper odds you will place far lower in tournaments than you should, even if you somehow manage to get enough good hands to get into the money. And I have rarely seen a statement more incorrect than "there will always be a better spot to stick your money in the pot". Tournaments are a race against the blinds, and in fact there may never be a better spot to stick your money in the pot.