11 replies to this topic

[gobears]

SnG on Pokerstars last night; down to last five. One big stack and four other including me all with about 10x BB.I'm in the BB; everybody folds including the big stack to the SB. SB bets 2x blind. I hold 88. I went all-in which would put him basically all-in.He ended up flopping an A and knocked me out as he had A3 suited and called my bet.My question is with low pocket pairs including 2's, would you re-raise all-in in this case? I'm thinking yes, because he could be on a steal and I can either take the pot right there or be a slight favorite to most hands.I could also have re-raised 2x or 3x his bet; I'm guessing he would have called and I'd be pot committed in any case even after I saw that the A flopped.

[DwayneWayne]

Tough hand, you have a big advantage in the hand and just got out drawn. When things like this come up I usually like to call and survey the flop, you have position and its still close to the bubble which could have you thinking one of two ways.1) Play aggressive and try for first or 2) play more conservative and try and pick your spots. Him calling with A3 is a terrible play on his part, he is never really ahead here unless you are playing a big K or on a re-steal, even then he is a big underdog a majority of the time and only a slight favorite at best a small percentage of the time.My advice is to call with 22-99, all in with TT up, AQ, AK,.... if you had 10xBB after you post you are still getting 3:1 from the pot to make the call and at that point hitting a set is 8:1, only putting in 10% of your stack makes this a solid choice given the place in the SNG. If you push all in and are called you are usually up against 2 over cards which is a coin toss, why put your self in that position, see the flop and take it from there. With 7xBB and the button you still have time to play.Small pocket pairs are terrible in these spots....just my 2 cents.

[Absolute]

I actually like the aggression here.5 handed, everyone folds to him, and he has A rags. I can understand the bet there, because he probably thinks he has the best hand with A high, and a small raise really feels you out.He definitely went wrong putting his money in with A-3 when you came over the top, but you have to expect that online.I would disagree with the all-in move, because the SB raiser could have put you on a steal because his raise was so weak. Seeing as how you were the only other player and came immediately over the top all in, he might have put you on a semi-bluff with something like Q 10 or a complete steal.I think raising him about 4x his original raise might have gotten him out of the pot.

[DwayneWayne]

i agree a re-raise is probably the best play here but what amount can you re-raise without committing yourself.T1000 facing a 200 raise, make it 400 to go is a min raise, making it 600 to go puts 60% of your stack in there....not a good place to be.I think a call saves you if a terrible flop hits, and if a favorable flop hits you can put your money in with the best of it as far as you know.

[Spidurman]

I just push there - you're likely ahead or a race - and its a great spot to pressure him. You got all your money in as a 3:1 favorite, do that enough and you'll make alot of money.SNGs are all about attacking from ahead and putting pressure on the opposition - which you did perfectly.

[JaysonWeber]

with 5 left you have to try to make a run, I tend to get aggresive with 4-5 left in sngo's and at 10x BB... you made the right move man.

[holman3rd]

JaysonWeber said:

with 5 left you have to try to make a run, I tend to get aggresive with 4-5 left in sngo's and at 10x BB... you made the right move man.

I'm going to take the opposite view here, primarily b/c we have no read on the BB. That said, his mini-raise is suspicious. He can't think that small bet can steal the BB, unless the BB is very weak (then again, we have no read, so anything's possible). So, it appears that he wants a call and isn't afraid of a re-raise (please note, i'm not letting the results taint my read).Given that, I'd try a stop and go. If the flop comes all rags, then perhaps I make a move. If I end up having to fold to a high board and a big bet, I still have 8x BB left.One other important point here is stack size. The BB is the chip leader, and I don't think this is a good spot to attack him, especially since the BB stack is still about par with the other players. In general, in SNGs, I try to avoid tangling with the big stack unless I'm very strong.HOWEVER, I can't really fault the all-in move by the BB, it's just that I probably would have played it differently (absent of any read).As usual, I guess "it depends."

[Duff_Man]

At 10XBB you made the right move. Him calling an all-in with an Ace is not. I can see making this call if you have two overcards, but not with one. A similiar situation happened to me in the Negreanu Open two weeks ago. Halfway thru the tourny with about 35 ppl left or so. I get AQs UTG (can't remember the blinds). I raise 4XBB, 2nd to the left of me ( believe it was braminc) raised all-in (he had twice as many chips as me). I immediately put him on a low to mid PP. I thought for few seconds then decided if I was gonna have any chance at winning then I needed to take chances and gamble. He had pocket 6's I believe. I called and luckily hit a Q on the turn. Ended up finishing 7th. Like I said with 2 overcards I can see calling, but with just one it's a bad play that paid off for him. Either way I think you made the right move.My .02 centsDuff

[holman3rd]

Duff_Man said:

At 10XBB you made the right move.   Him calling an all-in with an Ace is not.  I can see making this call if you have two overcards, but not with one.  A similiar situation happened to me in the Negreanu Open two weeks ago.  Halfway thru the tourny with about 35 ppl left or so.  I get AQs UTG (can't remember the blinds).  I raise 4XBB, 2nd to the left of me ( believe it was braminc) raised all-in (he had twice as many chips as me).  I immediately put him on a low to mid PP.  I thought for  few seconds then decided if I was gonna have any chance at winning then I needed to take chances and gamble.  He had pocket 6's I believe.  I called and luckily hit a Q on the turn.  Ended up finishing 7th.  Like I said with 2 overcards I can see calling, but with just one it's a bad play that paid off for him.  Either way I think you made the right move.My .02 centsDuff

I don't think it's so cut-and-dry that the SB shouldn't have called. He was about a 2-1 dog to a PP, 2.3-1 to a bigger ace, and about 1.3-1 to two cards bigger than a 3, but less than an ace.Pot odds were about 1.75 to 1, so if you assign equal probability to the above range of hands (about 1.9 to 1), it doesn't appear that he had the "right" pot odds to call. But, this isn't a limit ring game, it's a NL SNG. We really need to know his stack size, b/c it's important to know how much of his stack he was risking. If it were a relatively small amount, say 20% or less, then a call isn't so bad, imo.I don't see the need for desperation here. I know it's a "rule of thumb" that 10x bb left means it's all in time, but you have to access the situation. Three other stacks were at 10x BB, so a stop-and-go here (if unsuccessful) would leave the BB with a stack of 8x BB, still a workable stack with folding equity against the other smaller stacks. Obviously, I'm the only one advocating this play, but you can't just say that moving all-in is correct just b/c he's "only" got 10x BB left. Still, I'm not arguing that moving in is wrong, just that I'd prefer an alternate approach. Not to beat a dead horse, but here's another thought on why we really need to know the SB's stack size. He's calling with what is likely an underdog. If his stack size is big enough to do that, whether he wins or loses is irrelevant. The other players see that he's will to call with A3 suited, so they are likely to tighten up against him...that's something he can use to his advantage to push around the table some more.One more thought (sorry)...how does the BB put the SB on a "steal" with just a 2x BB raise? This mini-raise smells fishy to me. Then again, we haven't been given any read on this hand. Perhaps this is his typical raise, but who knows---all important info that we need to accurately assess the situation, rather than zeroing in on "10x bb...gotta push".

[gobears]

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I don't think it's so cut-and-dry that the SB shouldn't have called. He was about a 2-1 dog to a PP, 2.3-1 to a bigger ace, and about 1.3-1 to two cards bigger than a 3, but less than an ace.Pot odds were about 1.75 to 1, so if you assign equal probability to the above range of hands (about 1.9 to 1), it doesn't appear that he had the "right" pot odds to call. But, this isn't a limit ring game, it's a NL SNG. We really need to know his stack size, b/c it's important to know how much of his stack he was risking. If it were a relatively small amount, say 20% or less, then a call isn't so bad, imo.

SB had just a bit more than me; we were both around 10x BB so his call meant one of us was for all intents going out.

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I don't see the need for desperation here. I know it's a "rule of thumb" that 10x bb left means it's all in time, but you have to access the situation. Three other stacks were at 10x BB, so a stop-and-go here (if unsuccessful) would leave the BB with a stack of 8x BB, still a workable stack with folding equity against the other smaller stacks. Obviously, I'm the only one advocating this play, but you can't just say that moving all-in is correct just b/c he's "only" got 10x BB left. Still, I'm not arguing that moving in is wrong, just that I'd prefer an alternate approach. Not to beat a dead horse, but here's another thought on why we really need to know the SB's stack size. He's calling with what is likely an underdog. If his stack size is big enough to do that, whether he wins or loses is irrelevant. The other players see that he's will to call with A3 suited, so they are likely to tighten up against him...that's something he can use to his advantage to push around the table some more.One more thought (sorry)...how does the BB put the SB on a "steal" with just a 2x BB raise? This mini-raise smells fishy to me. Then again, we haven't been given any read on this hand. Perhaps this is his typical raise, but who knows---all important info that we need to accurately assess the situation, rather than zeroing in on "10x bb...gotta push".

Here's some more color and I did think quite a bit about just calling with the 8's.Big Stack was to my immediate left; the best chance for SB to steal would be with me in the BB since on any future hands, the big stack would have last action before the flop.In the previous round in the same situation, the SB had 2x raised me and I had re-raised him all-in (I had AQ). He had folded that time.I knew that he knew that I would defend (he didn't know that I had AQ as I didn't show him after he folded). I thought that the chances of him calling were higher this time as he probably had at least some decent hand and the fact that he had to consider that I would re-raise all-in.It came down to the fact that only 99's and a higher PP would have made me a big dog; I was probably in the lead and I wanted to try to take the pot right there.Thanks for the comments everybody; it gives me a lot to think about in terms of future strategy.

[JFarrell20]

go all in pre-flop.End of discussion.

[holman3rd]

gobears said:

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I don't think it's so cut-and-dry that the SB shouldn't have called. He was about a 2-1 dog to a PP, 2.3-1 to a bigger ace, and about 1.3-1 to two cards bigger than a 3, but less than an ace.Pot odds were about 1.75 to 1, so if you assign equal probability to the above range of hands (about 1.9 to 1), it doesn't appear that he had the "right" pot odds to call. But, this isn't a limit ring game, it's a NL SNG. We really need to know his stack size, b/c it's important to know how much of his stack he was risking. If it were a relatively small amount, say 20% or less, then a call isn't so bad, imo.

SB had just a bit more than me; we were both around 10x BB so his call meant one of us was for all intents going out.

Quote

I don't see the need for desperation here. I know it's a "rule of thumb" that 10x bb left means it's all in time, but you have to access the situation. Three other stacks were at 10x BB, so a stop-and-go here (if unsuccessful) would leave the BB with a stack of 8x BB, still a workable stack with folding equity against the other smaller stacks. Obviously, I'm the only one advocating this play, but you can't just say that moving all-in is correct just b/c he's "only" got 10x BB left. Still, I'm not arguing that moving in is wrong, just that I'd prefer an alternate approach. Not to beat a dead horse, but here's another thought on why we really need to know the SB's stack size. He's calling with what is likely an underdog. If his stack size is big enough to do that, whether he wins or loses is irrelevant. The other players see that he's will to call with A3 suited, so they are likely to tighten up against him...that's something he can use to his advantage to push around the table some more.One more thought (sorry)...how does the BB put the SB on a "steal" with just a 2x BB raise? This mini-raise smells fishy to me. Then again, we haven't been given any read on this hand. Perhaps this is his typical raise, but who knows---all important info that we need to accurately assess the situation, rather than zeroing in on "10x bb...gotta push".

Here's some more color and I did think quite a bit about just calling with the 8's.Big Stack was to my immediate left; the best chance for SB to steal would be with me in the BB since on any future hands, the big stack would have last action before the flop.In the previous round in the same situation, the SB had 2x raised me and I had re-raised him all-in (I had AQ). He had folded that time.I knew that he knew that I would defend (he didn't know that I had AQ as I didn't show him after he folded). I thought that the chances of him calling were higher this time as he probably had at least some decent hand and the fact that he had to consider that I would re-raise all-in.It came down to the fact that only 99's and a higher PP would have made me a big dog; I was probably in the lead and I wanted to try to take the pot right there.Thanks for the comments everybody; it gives me a lot to think about in terms of future strategy.

GoBears,My apologies. I probably read your original post 5 times, but kept making the same error. I thought the SB WAS the big stack. I have to read more carefully, obviously. Given my enlightenment on the situation, I think pushing is a far better choice.However, I hope I did give you something to think about if the SB were, in fact, the big stack.My bad.By the way, all the background info is really needed when hand histories are posted. Too many responses that are posted seem automatic without regard to all the extra factors that make the answer to many situations "it depends."Going forward it would be helpful to also not post the result initially. Some responses also tend to be results oriented.