28 replies to this topic

[WestcoastCanuck]

Messier is retiring on Monday: http://www.tsn.ca/nh...861&hubName=nhlAnyone have a favorite Messier moment? Mine was anytime he was as far away from Vancouver as possible.

[rinswun]

i would take anything the post say with a pinch of salt. they are notoriously wrong!

[WestcoastCanuck]

rinswun said:

i would take anything the post say with a pinch of salt. they are notoriously wrong!

Well his retirement has been rumoured and speculated on for over a year. I think he is done.

[rinswun]

well it seems like the post was right this time.http://www.tsn.ca/nh...089&hubName=nhl

[copernicus]

Rmunro said:

Messier is retiring on Monday: http://www.tsn.ca/nh...861&hubName=nhlAnyone have a favorite Messier moment? Mine was anytime he was as far away from Vancouver as possible.

Can there be a better Messier moment than guaranteeing a win in game 6 vs the Devils, then coming through with the hat trick after going down 2-0?I forget now whether that or game 7 was the night of the slow speed chase with OJ going up the 5 freeway about 6 miles from my house, but if they had preempted the game to show a white Bronco moseying on down the road (that was already being shown by 11-teen other stations), I would have gone out there and pulled the f*cker over myself!Game 6 was the key to a great week in my life...first night of the Eagles Hell Freezes Over tour, sitting next to Bill Walton, then hop a plane east for the Rangers/Vancouver opener (damn Bure!) and Knicks/Indiana series, 4 days of golf and blackjack in AC (they didnt have pokerrooms in '94 or at least I wasnt into it then). Bring back a Beukeboom jersey for my 7 year old who made the awful mistake (jk) of strapping on goal pads for his first roller hockey practice. My life hasnt been the same since!

[aadams_22]

ESPN Radio was also reporting the retirement throughout the day.

[digitalmonkey]

Just a funny little fact:My current dentist, Dr. Terry Witzu, was the Oilers' dentist during the period they won all the Stanley Cups. Sitting in his dentist chair is actually more enjoyable than most because the walls are plastered with Oilers memorabilia. Anyway, I asked him who he thought was the best player ever, expecting him to say Gretzky. He stated that Gordie Howe and Marice "Rocket" Richard were the best of their era because they had talent AND toughness. His answer as to who was the best ever was:Games - 1,756 (2nd behind Gordie Howe)Goals - 694Assists - 1,193Points - 1,887 (2nd behind Wayne Gretzky)PIM - 1,910Can't really argue with that!

[WestcoastCanuck]

digitalmonkey said:

Just a funny little fact:My current dentist, Dr. Terry Witzu, was the Oilers' dentist during the period they won all the Stanley Cups. Sitting in his dentist chair is actually more enjoyable than most because the walls are plastered with Oilers memorabilia. Anyway, I asked him who he thought was the best player ever, expecting him to say Gretzky. He stated that Gordie Howe and Marice "Rocket" Richard were the best of their era because they had talent AND toughness. His answer as to who was the best ever was:Games - 1,756 (2nd behind Gordie Howe)Goals - 694Assists - 1,193Points - 1,887 (2nd behind Wayne Gretzky)PIM - 1,910Can't really argue with that!

I would be tempted to agree if his career ended before he played for the Canucks .Before his Canuck career, he was unbelievable.

[Petoria]

Since the topic was brought up, how about you rank your own top 10 hockey players of all time.1. Wayne Gretzky2. Gordie Howe3. Bobby Orr4. Mark Messier5. Maurice Richard6. Bobby Hull7. Mario Lemieux8. Ray Borque9. Patrick Roy10. Steve YzermanI know there are probably a couple names missing just thought it would be fun to see where you put everyone all time.

[aadams_22]

Brett Hull and Stan Mikita could be added to that list.

[Petoria]

aadams_22 said:

Brett Hull and Stan Mikita could be added to that list.

I considered Brett Hull for quite a while, but i determined that he wasnt a complete enough player. He's never been the kind of guy to give up the puck, whenever he has a possibility to score he takes it when there are better opportunities if he passes it.I didnt think of Stan Mikita, but that is a good idea. Who would you like to see off the list in favor of him? Don't say Yzerman, bc i'm not letting that one go, bc he's been a complete player since he entered the league.

[HtotheNootch]

Petoria said:

Since the topic was brought up, how about you rank your own top 10 hockey players of all time.1. Wayne Gretzky2. Gordie Howe3. Bobby Orr4. Mark Messier5. Maurice Richard6. Bobby Hull7. Mario Lemieux8. Ray Borque9. Patrick Roy10. Steve YzermanI know there are probably a couple names missing just thought it would be fun to see where you put everyone all time.

Was Bourque really better than Larry Robinson?

[aadams_22]

Petoria said:

aadams_22 said:

Brett Hull and Stan Mikita could be added to that list.

I considered Brett Hull for quite a while, but i determined that he wasnt a complete enough player. He's never been the kind of guy to give up the puck, whenever he has a possibility to score he takes it when there are better opportunities if he passes it.I didnt think of Stan Mikita, but that is a good idea. Who would you like to see off the list in favor of him? Don't say Yzerman, bc i'm not letting that one go, bc he's been a complete player since he entered the league.

I'll say it anyway...Yzerman Seriously though, Yzerman was a hell of a player and will be a sure bet for the Hall of Fame, but I don't think he belongs in the top 10.

[aadams_22]

1. Wayne Gretzky2. Gordie Howe3. Bobby Orr4. Bobby Hull5. Maurice Richard6. Phil Esposito7. Jacques Plante8. Guy LaFleur9. Stan Mikita10. Mario Lemieux

[copernicus]

aadams_22 said:

1. Wayne Gretzky2. Gordie Howe3. Bobby Orr4. Bobby Hull5. Maurice Richard6. Phil Esposito7. Jacques Plante8. Guy LaFleur9. Stan Mikita10. Mario Lemieux

Plante instead of Roy? For his time Plante was great, but Roy changed the way the position was played, having as much impact on the goalies of the future as Orr did on defensemen.I didnt get to see much of Espo in his Boston days, but once he hit NY he was a one way player. I would put Brad Park ahead of him from players I actually watched.I wont start the Lemieux debate but many would put him above Gretzky, much less in 10th place.

[Petoria]

copernicus said:

aadams_22 said:

1. Wayne Gretzky2. Gordie Howe3. Bobby Orr4. Bobby Hull5. Maurice Richard6. Phil Esposito7. Jacques Plante8. Guy LaFleur9. Stan Mikita10. Mario Lemieux

Plante instead of Roy? For his time Plante was great, but Roy changed the way the position was played, having as much impact on the goalies of the future as Orr did on defensemen.I didnt get to see much of Espo in his Boston days, but once he hit NY he was a one way player. I would put Brad Park ahead of him from players I actually watched.I wont start the Lemieux debate but many would put him above Gretzky, much less in 10th place.

Let's start the Lemieux debate, bc...well...i'm bored. I understand some of the reasoning behind liking Lemieux ahead of Gretzky, but he just didnt have enough years to put him ahead of Gretzky. Did he have as much talent as Gretzky? Yeah, it's pretty close. Could he have put up the numbers that Gretzky did? Yeah, most likely. Did he? NO. Gretzky didnt just win scoring titles though, he annihilated records: 92 goals, 212 points. Those are records that not even Lemieux were ever going to touch. Secondly Gretzky played for 19 years and was outstanding in every one of them.

[copernicus]

I can buy everything you say until the last sentence. He wasnt that good in his farewell tour of clubs.As far as Lemieux goes, its an unanswerable question because of his health, but a lot of his per game averages challenge or exceed 99s. Personally I lean toward 99, but then I love that entire Edmonton team. A team that is so good that it made it look like Grant Fuhr was just another goalie of the era will never happen again.

[digitalmonkey]

I won't make a list of my top ten players because everything is so relative. Was Eddie Shore a better player than Guy Lafleur? Well, if I'm looking for a tough defenseman, yeah, but if I want a goal scorer I'll take Lafleur over Shore anyday.When I think of a sniper I think of...Mike BossyBrett HullGuy LafleurPhil EspositoJari KurriWhen I think of a booming shot I think of...Al MacInnisBobby HullWhen I think of a offensive defenseman I think of...Bobby OrrPaul CoffeyRay BourqueWhen I think of a set up man I think of...Wayne GretzkyMario LemieuxAdam OatesWhen I think of toughness and talent combined I think of...Mark MessierGordie HoweRocket RichardWhen I think of a money goalie I think of...Ken DrydenPatrick RoyMartin BrodeurWhen I think of great teams I think of...Montreal Canadiens of late 70'sBoston Bruins of 70'sNew York Islanders of early 80'sEdmonton Oilers of mid 80'sWhen I think of a captain I think of...Steve YzermanMark MessierDarryl SittlerJean BeliveauWhen I think of a whiner I think of...Darcy TuckerTie DomiPat Quinn (as a coach)This list is obviously biased because I did not see many excellent players play. There have been so many great hockey players over the years that it is impossible to accurately compare them to one another.The question is....If you were going to participate in an Ultimate Fantasy Hockey draft where points are based on goals and assists and you have the first overall pick, who would you choose? I think we all know the answer to that!

[WestcoastCanuck]

I want to make a well thought out post later, but off the top of my head:Snipers that are missing: Pavel BureSet up men: Francis, TrottierNot saying these guys are top 10 material, but they were all good.Also, Lemiuex should be an automatic top 5 player.

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212 points. Those are records that not even Lemieux were ever going to touch.

I believe Lemieux got 199 points, which is pretty close. If Lemieux played more of his career injury free on teams as good as the 91-93 era teams, I think he approaches Gretzkys stats. We'll never know, so I guess you gotta put Gretzky above him.In my big time hockey watching days (anytime after 1990), Lemieux and Bure were the best two scorers I saw. Lemieux (when he played) in the 90s was better than Gretzky in the 90s, at least.

[ajs510]

It's an injustice that Terry O'Reilly isn't on anyone's list. Oh fine...(sw)