14 replies to this topic

[cmstaab]

Need constructive comments on this hand, especially from Smash because you know limit really well.Playing at Pacific .25/.50, they don't have hand histories so bear with me. First of all, the players here are so loose passive that a turn or river raise often means 2 pair or a set, they are not aggressive at all.Pre-flop:UTG: foldUTG +1: raises to .50UTG +2: foldsME (Qs, Qc): raise to .75MP +1: calls .75CO: foldsButton: calls .75SB: calls .75BB: foldsUTG +1: calls .25Flop: 3c , 9h , 7hSB: checksUTG +1: checksMe (Qs, Qc): bets .25MP +1: calls .25Button: calls .25SB: calls .25UTG +1: calls .25Turn: 4dSB: checksUTG +1: checksMe (Qs, Qc): bets .50MP +1: calls .50Button: calls .50SB: calls .50UTG +1: raises to 1Me (Qs, Qc): calls .50MP +1: foldsButton: calls .50SB: calls .50River: JdSB: bets .50UTG +1: raises to 1Me (Qs, Qc): foldsButton: foldsSB: calls .50UTG +1 shows: 10d, 10h (Pair of Tens)SB shows: As, Js (Pair of Jacks)SB wins: $11.45Right after I folded this I wanted to vomit, especially when I saw it would of held up. Was this as bad a fold as it looks? The check-raise got me thinking a set or two-pair and then when SB leads out with a bet on the river and is raised I am almost certain someone has two-pair or a set. Should I have just called even though I thought I was beat because the pot was so big?I think I really need to buy SSHE now. I'm still learning so any advice would be appreciated.Thanks in advance.

[Smasharoo]

Don't post the reslults.1) Why didn't you three-bet the turn? 2) You have to call this river. Have to have to have to. You're getting 11 to 1 to call. If you win this pot 1 time in 10 you show a big profit. The board is only marginally scary, and the raise when an overcard to the rest of the board hits the river means virtually nothing. I'd be a little worried that there might be a three-bet behind me, but I still think it's an easy call.Be more inclined in 20BB pots even when you're almost certain you're beaten.

[cmstaab]

Your right, I have no clue why I didn't three bet the turn, if the raiser then calls rather than re-raising it is less likely he has two pair. Thanks for the very quick response, I had a feeling I should of called but I needed specifics why I should of called from a much more experienced player. I DEFINATELY need to get Small Stakes Hold 'Em to learn pot odds and how to use position better. Thanks again for the response and I can't wait til you get to .25/.50 in your experiment.

[JaysonWeber]

Theory of Poker is a good book to pick up as well... if you're looking for pot odds, implied odds etc.. but I'd buy Small Stakes Hold 'Em first as it deals with only small stakes and its written VERY well, I know it helped me a lot with my Limit play... as disgusting as my limit play remians.. I can alteast log winning sessions after reading that book.

[jayboogie]

ive made similar dumb plays earlier before folding an overpair to the board, just because theres action and you don't improve doesn't mean you don't have the best hand, you will always have idiots trying to bluff at pots by raising and re-raising. It seems your style is weak tight right now and your going to need to change that if you want to be successful. You can't keep thinking about hands that have you beat and fold winners like this. Weak tight is a losing style, trust me, I would know. I used to play this way and wonder why my AA never held up.

[Ebonwoulfe]

Where was there any indication during the hand that he had you beat? Nowhere. Oh well, mistakes happen. This was a big one, since it cost you the pot. Realize with big pairs that nobody wants to put you on a big pair at the low stakes. They want *their* hand to win. Their top pair, top kicker.The guy with 10-10 probably thought something along the lines of: My pair is good enough. It's even an overpair to the board! He can't possibly have me beat, I have this hidden powerhouse of 10-10. I'm gonna raise and put the screws to him. That guy betting probably only has AK. Everyone overplays AK at this limit. The other one? He might be drawing to some sort of straight, or has a pair of 8's he's hoping will hold up. Either way, I want to bet at him too. Charge the sucker! Guess what, I have your outs, straight draw!

[Smasharoo]

Where was there any indication during the hand that he had you beat? Nowhere. Well the river raise is going to mean a flush here more times than not. The salient point is that "than not" is more than 1 time in 11.

[pkarcher]

Smasharoo said:

Where was there any indication during the hand that he had you beat? Nowhere. Well the river raise is going to mean a flush here more times than not. The salient point is that "than not" is more than 1 time in 11.

was the board. No flush

[Ebonwoulfe]

Yeah I think it was the straight that really had him worried. I wouldn't think the straight would be that likely, but he had in the neighborhood of 6 people calling $0.75 preflop. Can't say most players at that table are good, maybe someone took the chance with 8-10 (or whatever made the straight).

[JFarrell20]

This is a horrible fold, even with all the callers.The way the hand played out, you had to be ahead. Even if you might not be ahead you've got to call the river bet here simply because of pot odds. You don't need smash's advice here. Anyone on here is qualified to say that it was a bad fold.You played it fine all the way thru, then folded.... lol. I was reading it and saw (Q,Q) FOLD. I was like WHAT???!!! I almost spit out my soda.

[JFarrell20]

Smasharoo said:

Where was there any indication during the hand that he had you beat? Nowhere. Well the river raise is going to mean a flush here more times than not. The salient point is that "than not" is more than 1 time in 11.

It was actually club, heart, heart, diamond, diamond. No flush possibility.

[cmstaab]

In Summary:-I should have 3 bet the turn to find out where I am at in the hand-Even though I had a decent chance of being behind at the river, with a pot that big I MUST call.-I couldn't of played the hand much worse.-I desperately need to get Small Stakes Hold 'Em and eventually Theory of PokerThanks a lot for the comments, I am still learning and will continue to post hands to get feedback. Hopefully the next hand I post won't be so blatantly obvious that I played it horribly.

[jayistheman]

i would have called even if the river was a K or A

[Absolute]

I don't hate the call on the turn, but I don't necessarily agree with it.The only way your QQ is no good on the turn is if you had a raise on the flop. Then you would have to worry about AA, KK, 33, 77, 99, or 7-9 suited. But considering you made the bet on the flop and everyone just called, you have to eliminate those 4 hands.Then with a turn of 4, the only hand you worry about is MAYBE 4-4 from a very loose weak player.So basically your overpair is good on the turn, no one showed the strength of a pair bigger than yours in the hole, and the only hand you would ever have to worry about is a set of fours, and thats highly unlikely.The jack can make you worry about a hand like J-9, someone who has bitting sitting on top pair with a decent kicker, but by this point you are getting 11-1 and you have no choice but to call.This is common sense, try to look at hands in term of your investment.

[holybejeesusx]

on a side note, if you are getting 11:1 pot odds and you win 1 time in 11, you don't show a huge profit, you break even. still an easy call though