21 replies to this topic

[Actuary]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Actuary is SB with Td, 9d. UTG calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Actuary completes, BB checks.Flop: (5 SB) Js, 9h, 5h (5 players)Actuary checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, Actuary calls, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls.Turn: (4 BB) 9s (3 players)Actuary checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, MP1 calls, Button calls.River: (10 BB) 8h (3 players)Actuary...have at it.

[RDigger]

I think a check/ call is my play on this river simply because MP1 seems to be drawing....either to hearts, QT, or maybe T8, and in the first 2 cases his draws got there.On a side note....what do you guys think about a check raise on the flop since the button could just be on a steal, since it was checked to him??

[akishore]

actuary, the flop call = no good. either fold since it's small, or raise to protect.i value bet this river. whether i call a raise or fold to one is read-dependent on the player.aseem

[dimseven]

Fold the flop.But since You didn't, check call the river. Q-10 got there, flush got there.

[dimseven]

akishore said:

i value bet this river. whether i call a raise or fold to one is read-dependent on the player.aseem

I'd like to showdown this hand. Also with checking, it could induce the button to bet again (if he's aggressive) with a J. MP looks like he's on a *good* draw too because he called 2 cold on the turn.

[Actuary]

Aseem:did not raise flop because I was waiting until the turn..for 2 reasons1. Not enough equity to put in 2 bets, and maybe go heads up2. Not going to push out good draws here3. With Button being the aggressor, I can make the field face two on the turn..if I've improved.rip me.

[akishore]

Actuary said:

Aseem:did not raise flop because I was waiting until the turn..for 2 reasons1. Not enough equity to put in 2 bets, and maybe go heads up2. Not going to push out good draws here3. With Button being the aggressor, I can make the field face two on the turn..if I've improved.rip me.

nothing to rip, that's good reasoning. i might be wrong, you might be right, but honestly, it's almost 5am and i'm way too tired to think right now. :-) aseem

[Rokuban]

dimseven said:

Fold the flop.But since You didn't, check call the river. Q-10 got there, flush got there.

I check that flop and raise the button auto-bet every time. Why folding ?

[wrto4556]

check/raising the flop is a whole lot better than check/calling or waiting for the turn or whatever.

[Smiff85]

Bet/ call river.PS fold the flop.

[wrto4556]

if you fold this flop everytime you are leaving money at the table. Your 9 is most likely good.check/raising the button who could be betting with anything forces the field to call two cold. You get heads up most of the time.this is a super easy flop check/raise.I normally check/call the river.

[screech]

Quote

check/raising the button who could be betting with anything

This is a very good point. Most players auto-bet when checked to on the button. Your hand is probably good right now. Protect it.This is very different from a situation where someone leads into a big field. You should not be so eager to get it heads up in a small pot with MPDK. You should just fold unless you have the proper odds to draw.

[Actuary]

wrto4556 said:

check/raising the flop is a whole lot better than check/calling or waiting for the turn or whatever.

why?good draws are not folding to two (small bets) cold on the flop.Two big bets with only one card to go make protecting your hand more feasible.I agree to c/r a less coordinated board...when it might end up HU.Isn't this classic "when you can't protect your hand...":

[screech]

Actuary said:

wrto4556 said:

check/raising the flop is a whole lot better than check/calling or waiting for the turn or whatever.

why?good draws are not folding to two (small bets) cold on the flop.Two big bets with only one card to go make protecting your hand more feasible.

You'll never fold the big draws. What you're worried about is overcards and gutshots. You nine is vulnerable, you probably have the best hand, don't let others with weak draws profitably call.

[Actuary]

I don't agree.Maybe I"m wrong.Pots small enough now to let go.Waitng for a safe (or great) turn gives me a better chance to protect my hand. I think inflating the pot on the flop just leaves more players chasing to the river. MP1 could have easily folded a fd on the turn (although not correct, close though)

[wrto4556]

the raise isnt to make people fold. Its to make them call incorrectly...or fold. both are good. its a win/win situation.the pot is small enough on the flop that a raise is going to protect our hand.

[screech]

Quote

I don't agree. Maybe I"m wrong.

Anything's possible :wink: .I think your reasoning is sound, but it just applies to a different situation. For example, if the bet came from you left or if a player to your right lead into a field. In both these situations, it's unlikely that your middle pair hand is best, but you should still call since you'd be getting the right odds.Here however, the button bets. This could mean anything - a pair of jacks, a pair of nines with a stronger kicker, a pp of sevens, or abosuletly nothing. I think you have to raise here because the chances that you have after the best hand after the buttons bets are much higher. If you would raise a LP bet with TPNK to protect your hand, you should raise here too IMO.I'm not saying I'm right, but this is how I approach these situations.

[Actuary]

[quote=screech][quote=wrto4556]the raise isnt to make people fold. Its to make them call incorrectly...or fold. both are good. its a win/win situation.the pot is small enough on the flop that a raise is going to protect our hand.[/quote]I'm being persuaded towards you guys!Just didn't feel my hand was all that solid; however, no one else likes their hand either apparently. Didn't think to bet "partly for equity" yet. And was only looking at the need to improve first on the turn...and then raising when it's a better (worse) calling time for villans. Good fd's never fold to 2 SB's, but might fold to 2 BB's given only one card left to see. If we inflate the pot, then more draws are calling the turn..and no way to protect. If I had considered my hand had a decent chance to win UI, then raising the flop would have occurred to me.thanks fellas.

[LaydownKing]

You can't wait for the turn with a pair of 9's. You don't want people taking one off with hands like K4 and A2.

[Actuary]

there is discussion in SSHE about waiting until the turn to protect your hand, sometimes. I'll have to read that to see why it's not applicable here, apparently.....