5 replies to this topic

[megacake]

Was this played right?I was in a cash game with my friends (9 of us), got Kd-Qh and was right of the button, 1st guy raised BB, and 3 or 4 people called when it came to me and I raised 2XBB, had two callers after that (one of the guy was the one who raised). Flop came2h-Qd-7hThe first to bet bet the BB, and the next called, and then me, knowing I most probably had TPTK (with the exeption of an A-Q out there) called and raised 2XBB to try and fold any flush draws out there. The first better called and then the next guy folded. Turn was:9hNow, at this point, I figured that my opponent had something high, possibly QJ, or AK, but I didn't think he was in on the flush because of his betting early, I figured he had something like AK, KQ, AQ or something along that lines. I didn't peg him for KK or AA because I didn't think he was betting enough. He bet 2XBB, and when it came to me, seeing I had a flush draw and top pair, I went all in (which was around 5xBB). He called and showedAh-KsNow, he probably shouldn't have come with me to the turn, but at this point, he had enough chips to call my all in (over twice as many as I had) and had the flush draw along with his A-K to give him 14 outs. Not a bad call from his perspective. Of course the river came:Acand I was out. Now, how should I have played this differntly to walk away from this hand with *some* cash?

[Wilderness]

I was in a cash game with my friends (9 of us), got Kd-Qh and was right of the button, 1st guy raised BB, and 3 or 4 people called when it came to me and I raised 2XBB, had two callers after that (one of the guy was the one who raised).This was essentially your biggest mistake right away. Its been raised and then cold called by 3 or 4 people? Easy fold. KQo is only a decent hand with limpers in an unraised pot. Any raise usually means you are behind or dominated, as in this case where you were dominated and caught one of 3 queens (which of course didn't hold up anyway).Flop came2h-Qd-7hThe first to bet bet the BB, and the next called, and then me, knowing I most probably had TPTK (with the exeption of an A-Q out there) called and raised 2XBB to try and fold any flush draws out there. The first better called and then the next guy folded. At this point, once you've made the mistake of being in the hand, I do think its correct to raise to see where you are. However, I probably would have raised more, maybe 3-4XBB. That will tell you a lot better where you are than your 2XBB bet. You may get him to fold AK, and when him or anyone calls, you better realize that you are very likely in trouble.Turn was:9hNow, at this point, I figured that my opponent had something high, possibly QJ, or AK, but I didn't think he was in on the flush because of his betting early, I figured he had something like AK, KQ, AQ or something along that lines. I didn't peg him for KK or AA because I didn't think he was betting enough. He bet 2XBB, and when it came to me, seeing I had a flush draw and top pair, I went all in (which was around 5xBB). He called and showedAh-KsNow, he probably shouldn't have come with me to the turn, but at this point, he had enough chips to call my all in (over twice as many as I had) and had the flush draw along with his A-K to give him 14 outs. Not a bad call from his perspective. Of course the river came:AcI think you've just got fold once you hit the turn. He raised before the flop, bet then called your raise on the flop, and now he's betting out again? He's showing strength and you have only top pair with a good (but not best) kicker. Its very likely you are in trouble here I think. It turns out that you are ahead, and that he's got a good draw, but if you took his cards and the river out of your post so none of us knew what he had, I think most people would agree you are probably behind at this point.

[CoreyBrown]

Both sides misplayed this.He had nothing but ace high to call your all in. That was pretty foolish, but you never showed him anything really. You are betting 2X BB after the flop and turn. With so many preflop callers, and then post flop play there is like 20 Big Blinds in the pot already. *I'm not actually doing the math, just figuring an avg* 2 x BB is not going to scare me out even if I do only have AK here. Then your all in looks like a steal attempt from a hand you didn't feel confident with. I would not have called here, but he might have been thinking you were on a pure steal.

[Ebonwoulfe]

I must agree that calling at all with K-Q off is a poor play, reason being that you don't want to take a flop where you might already be beaten or you might be dominated. YOU got lucky to have any part in this hand, not him. YOU were the one who drew out on him to start things off. HE was the one who, if he had lost, would have to think "Man he got lucky".The second mistake is small bets. Small bets don't do much to protect your hand, which is exactly what a hand like top pair, good kicker needs. Proper pot odds to chase a flush is somewhere in the vicinity of 4-1 (for every dollar you put into the pot, there needs to be at least 4 currently in the pot to win). If you fail to give opponents worse odds than this, they make a correct play in trying to make their flush. You can bemoan the fact that you lost on the river, but you have to realize that a bigger bet on the flop could have won you that pot.Lessons to be learned?Respect an early position raiser (especially if it's a good player, because good players realize that they need a much better hand when there's lots of people still to act than a player around back does). Seriously, if he raises with any two big cards, how likely is it for your two cards to be better? If he's raising with anything like AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT (some of which you shouldn't raise with or even play in early position, but that's not what I'm talking about), which ones are you really beating? KJ, KT. That's it. That's all you're beating. 9 hands he might have already beat you, 1 ties you, and you have 2 beat. Even if he will raise any A, you're still losing. Not by much, but you're losing.Be more aggressive. Don't give others the chance to draw at your top pair if you think you're winning. If you're betting less than half the pot at any given time, you're probably not betting enough. Look at it this way, if you had to pay $1 to have a 10% shot at winning $100, would you take it? In a heartbeat. Would you pay $15 to have a 10% chance of winning $100? Not if you are particularly fond of money. In no limit, you have the opportunity of making the draws pay more than they should to see the next card. Take away the $1 to win $100, give them the $15 to win $100. That situation makes you profit.If you ever have to ask "Was this played right?", you probably already know the answer yourself. You KNOW it was played wrong. You can SEE it. You know YOU played it wrong. You feel that HE played it wrong. Find your errors and fix them. That's what this game is about, minimizing your mistakes. Take the time to examine what happened. These are the two most obvious errors. Fix them.Another error that comes to mind is that it seems you never bothered to think about what he might have. You *hoped* he didn't have A-Q. All you did was remove from your mind the possibility of him having AA or KK, which was probably a fair enough assumption due to the way betting was coming down. He would have been much more aggressive protecting his AA or KK with that nice flush possibility out there.

[megacake]

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, I know it was a bad call before the flop and will be more mindful from now on. I think the best advice (and all of you gave it) was to bet more agressively with top pair. I did it last night in 3 $5 buy in tourney's on pokerroom and placed 2nd, 1st, and 3rd (10 player tourney's). Where it worked best was actually the game in which i finished 2nd, I was really getting beat down with my hole cards, but the few hands I did play (which were usually bad hole cards too) I was able to steal some pots with weak top pair. Thanks again to everyone and I'm sure I'll be consulting you guys again.

[Ebonwoulfe]

Glad to see that this easy fix in your game has already brought you some measure of success. It's amazing how the simple change of betting style can change your game so much for the better.Now that you discovered aggression, beware the trap of over-aggression. It can get you in a spot where you can be manipulated by savvy opponents.