fold two pair here?

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I've noticed that a lot of the posts in the strategy tournament section seems to involve huge, all in type pots. It definitely makes sense, because the huge pots are the ones we always remember. I'd like to encourage the people that post in this section to try posting some less "exciting" hands too, however. Saving a few chips here and there, or getting in an extra value bet on the river in a certain situation, can go a long way in a tourney.Here's an example of what I'm referring to. I appreciate any feedback you guys would care to dish out.This is a one-table sit n' go tourney. Feel free to comment on how I played the hand on all streets, but my main question is on the river. I didn't like that queen much, but I figured I could get in a small value bet against someone who is a relatively loose player and could be calling me down with something as weak as a jack. The real dilemma I'm facing is because I'll still have an "okay" stack left even if I call this raise. His raise isn't substantial enough to hurt me, but I'm wondering if you guys feel that his raise looks like it wants a call so much that it's unlikely that my bottom two pair is the best hand. Should I save this 200 chips here or call?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converterMP1 (t2690)MP2 (t2500)CO (t1385)Button (t1220)SB (t1923)Hero (t1310)UTG (t1382)UTG+1 (t1090)Preflop: Hero is BB with [5c], [7h]. 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.Flop: (t150) [Ac], [7s], [Js] (3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.Turn: (t150) [5h] (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets t100, MP2 calls t100, SB folds.River: (t350) [Qd] (2 players)Hero bets t100, Hero...

[gobears 0]

I call this - 200 to win 750, it's somewhat scary how he woke up on the river and is pricing you in for a call but your two pair could be good. If he has QJ or K10, oh well.

[tskillz187 0]

I pay him off. I see what you are saying, but I just cant not pay him off here...maybe that is a hole of mine.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I pay him off.  I see what you are saying, but I just cant not pay him off here...maybe that is a hole of mine.

I don't really think it's too big a hole if it is one truthfully. I'm just curious of what people think.The problem I have here is that it's unlikely anything less than two pair is raising, which means I likely have the worst hand. But, this raise is so small, I just might have to call...

[copernicus 0]

The problem I have here is that it's unlikely anything less than two pair is raising, which means I likely have the worst hand.  But, this raise is so small, I just might have to call...

Why do you think that anything less than two pair isnt raising?From his seat youve been too passive to hold an A, and your turn bet could easily be a cheap steal attempt or a small piece of the flop or turn or a flush draw, and with 2.5/1 odds and one of the big stacks could easily be calling with KQ or any flush draw . Now he hits a Q which he sees as probably being top pair, and he sees another weak bet from you...a raise here is not that unlikely.To put it another way..you have feigned weakness, especially with the river bet. When you get a strong repsonse to an underbet y0u cant abandon the hand, otherwise why not bet it for its full value in the first place?

[Swift_Psycho 1]

When you get a strong repsonse to an underbet y0u cant abandon the hand

But it wasn't really a "strong" response. It's a bet that looks like it's begging for a call. It just seems unlikely that such a raise would be made with less than two pair. Regardless, you do make good points. Calling does seem to be the necessary play here because of how I played this hand. Good analysis and thanks.

[copernicus 0]

When you get a strong repsonse to an underbet y0u cant abandon the hand

But it wasn't really a "strong" response. It's a bet that looks like it's begging for a call. It just seems unlikely that such a raise would be made with less than two pair. Regardless, you do make good points. Calling does seem to be the necessary play here because of how I played this hand. Good analysis and thanks.

I meant strong in the sense that any raise here could be a response to perceived weakness on your part, not the size of the bet. Another example would be a slow play of Aces in a limit ring game. If a K hits and someone plays into you, you cant fear a set because he doesnt have a clue how strong you are.Here a 200 bet into a 450 pot could be "begging for a call", or it could just be a cautious value bet with a Q or even a weak A.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

When you get a strong repsonse to an underbet y0u cant abandon the hand

But it wasn't really a "strong" response. It's a bet that looks like it's begging for a call. It just seems unlikely that such a raise would be made with less than two pair. Regardless, you do make good points. Calling does seem to be the necessary play here because of how I played this hand. Good analysis and thanks.

I meant strong in the sense that any raise here could be a response to perceived weakness on your part, not the size of the bet. Another example would be a slow play of Aces in a limit ring game. If a K hits and someone plays into you, you cant fear a set because he doesnt have a clue how strong you are.Here a 200 bet into a 450 pot could be "begging for a call", or it could just be a cautious value bet with a Q or even a weak A.

I do agree with you, but I really hated seeing this raise. I grudgingly called. He showed his monstrous K-10off.Thanks for the responses everyone.

[copernicus 0]

I do agree with you, but I really hated seeing this raise.  I grudgingly called.  He showed his monstrous K-10off.Thanks for the responses everyone.

Unfortunate, and given the size of his stack vs your turn bet, a call isnt that outrageous with an inside straight draw. the likelihoodd that pairing a K would be good, and a small chance that hes even ahead.Does anyone bet more on the turn with 2 pair?At least you didnt reraise and go for a big number.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I do agree with you, but I really hated seeing this raise.  I grudgingly called.  He showed his monstrous K-10off.Thanks for the responses everyone.

Unfortunate, and given the size of his stack vs your turn bet, a call isnt that outrageous with an inside straight draw. the likelihoodd that pairing a K would be good, and a small chance that hes even ahead.Does anyone bet more on the turn with 2 pair?At least you didnt reraise and go for a big number.

No doubt, re-raising the river would have been horrible. I probably could have bet more on the turn, though I didn't think 2/3 of the pot was a horrible size. I really didn't want to get married to the hand though by making a larger bet. A larger turn bet means the river betting round is also likely to be more expensive. I wasn't ready to play a big pot with such a vulnerable hand. Any card 10 or higher on the river is going to make me dislike my hand a fair amount (because of the possibilty of a straight or a higher two pair), as well as any spade that doesn't fill me up. Are you betting the pot or more on this turn?

[tskillz187 0]

I'm personally betting the 200 on the turn. Then the river I would weakly check and probably call a bet that was smaller than pot size, pretty weak. I'd bet the turn to try and take it down and then if i didnt id pretty much be check/calling the river no matter what hit unless i filled up. Now that just sounds like a horrible strategy but that is how I would play it, bet 200 on turn, if he calls, check river and call about 400 from him.

[copernicus 0]

I do agree with you, but I really hated seeing this raise. I grudgingly called. He showed his monstrous K-10off.Thanks for the responses everyone.

Unfortunate, and given the size of his stack vs your turn bet, a call isnt that outrageous with an inside straight draw. the likelihoodd that pairing a K would be good, and a small chance that hes even ahead.Does anyone bet more on the turn with 2 pair?At least you didnt reraise and go for a big number.

No doubt, re-raising the river would have been horrible. I probably could have bet more on the turn, though I didn't think 2/3 of the pot was a horrible size. I really didn't want to get married to the hand though by making a larger bet. A larger turn bet means the river betting round is also likely to be more expensive. I wasn't ready to play a big pot with such a vulnerable hand. Any card 10 or higher on the river is going to make me dislike my hand a fair amount (because of the possibilty of a straight or a higher two pair), as well as any spade that doesn't fill me up. Are you betting the pot or more on this turn?

I might instinctively bet pot, particularly on a site with a "bet pot" button, but probably not much more, but im generally a conservative player. Even if every card A-T are outs for your opponent youre a substantial favorite, so Im sure there are aggressive players who might push it harder with a couple of potential draws out .

[PAYforUSC 0]

call