18 replies to this topic

[wrto4556]

** Dealing down cards **Dealt to goldtoe4556 [ 3s As ]whodey23 folds.DEVILL22 calls [$0.5].daisy62 calls [$0.5].dan42518 folds.mattinatl calls [$0.5].goldtoe4556 calls [$0.5].gonzalouc folds.gmedeiros calls [$0.25].El_Hubaso checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, 3d, 7h ]gmedeiros bets [$0.5].El_Hubaso calls [$0.5].DEVILL22 calls [$0.5].daisy62 folds.mattinatl calls [$0.5].goldtoe4556 calls [$0.5].** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]gmedeiros checks.El_Hubaso bets [$1].DEVILL22 raises [$2].mattinatl calls [$2].goldtoe4556 folds.gmedeiros folds.El_Hubaso folds.** Dealing River ** [ Ks ]DEVILL22 checks.mattinatl checks.DEVILL22 shows [ 6c, 7d ] two pairs, sevens and sixes.mattinatl doesn't show [ 6d, 4d ] a pair of sixes.DEVILL22 wins $10 from the main pot with two pairs, sevens and sixes.Game #1485036485 starts.Should have raised the flop, huh.

[Spidurman]

That's how I would have played it (assuming I chose to play ace-rag). The only reason I make the flop call is last to act, otherwise I probably muck.

[troll]

the person who won had top pair on the flop so they probably would have called even if you had raised

[copernicus]

or there are backdoor straight/flush possibilities then taking a card off with middle pair if its not too expensive vs several opponents is pretty standard play I think. If you dont improve on the turn you need to fold, as you did, because you are almost certainly behind at that point, with only 2 outs to trips a likely winner. When the middle pair is relatively low, even two pair can get counterfeited when a pair shows on the board.If there are no backdoor draws and the kicker is lower than an A seeing the turn is questionable at best.

[wrto4556]

troll said:

the person who won had top pair on the flop so they probably would have called even if you had raised

It doesn't matter what he had. And for Copernicus, I had a backdoor straight draw, middle pair, with overcard kicker. I think I should have raised on the flop. I could have atleast seen the river for free. The pot was pretty big.Yes?no?

[copernicus]

would be right if you expect it to limit the field. Every player you knock out reduces the "Field's" outs by a little over 5 (not a full 6 because there may already be some duplicated cards, particularly honors. I'd guess that improves your winning chances by 15% per player knocked out or so.If the raise isnt big enough to limit the field then you are probably betting against yourself.

[Eskimo]

I would have folded on the flop. Bottom line is you have middle pair and 3 callers in front of you.

[Smasharoo]

Should have raised the flop, huh.Not here. Sometmes middle pair is just middle pair, and closinng the action your raise is unlikely to fold anyone who's allready called a flop bet.

[wrto4556]

hmmmm good point.

[JFarrell20]

Im assuming you are the 4556 guy...Raising pre-flop would have done nothing here b/c the guy with 67 was right in front of you and if it got called all the way around to him he would have surely called 50 cents more b/c the pot is bigger now and his call means pre-flop betting is over. He would have hit top pair on the flop and ended up winning anyway.Whoops I just realized you said after the flop...I wouldn't chase this. I wouldn't say you had a straight draw b/c it was runner-runner. And if the board made you 4-5, then someone with a 6 or 6-8 (unlikely they'd chase w/ 6 8 on that flop) has you beat with a community of 2 3 7 4 5. It's just middle pair. Plus, if your ace hits for second pair then the board would be 2 3 7 A, which means anyone chasing with 4-5 (very likely) just crushed you.

[JFarrell20]

wrto4556 said:

troll said:

the person who won had top pair on the flop so they probably would have called even if you had raised

It doesn't matter what he had. And for Copernicus, I had a backdoor straight draw, middle pair, with overcard kicker. I think I should have raised on the flop. I could have atleast seen the river for free. The pot was pretty big.Yes?no?

I want to get the whole "seeing the river card for free" thing clear.If you are heads-up on the flop and you raise, then they call, they will act first on the turn, and you're assuming they'll just check, then you can check if you didn't hit, seeing the river for free and saving 1 big bet on the turn?This is what I assume you mean. Because if I'm not mistaken, whoever calls the bet in one round has to lead out the next round.

[Spidurman]

sometimes if you check-raise the flop from EP, you can buy the free card there by checking (they are afraid of the check-raise again) the turn. It costs one big bet for two cards vs 1.5 big if its one bet to go each street.I prefer plays like that in stud poker formats to flop games just because of the extra betting round, plays like this work there ALOT.

[MrConceit]

Spidurman said:

That's how I would have played it (assuming I chose to play ace-rag). The only reason I make the flop call is last to act, otherwise I probably muck.

You have to remember to take into account how loose-tight and passive-aggressive the table is. You're saying on a loose table that isn't extremely aggressive after 3 people limp, you wouldn't play suited Arag... Sure it could be raised after you, but you already know 3 people limped and likely both blinds are playing. Do you need all 6 or so people to limp ahead of you before you decide to finally play Arag suited? This kind of hand is a moneymaker in really loose tables. You just have to know when to lay it down when you flop an ace. You can't apply tight table theories to a table where 7 people see an unraised flop. Yes, you have to play correctly postflop to not trap yourself, but how do you learn to do this if you don't play hands?

[Spidurman]

MrConceit said:

Spidurman said:

That's how I would have played it (assuming I chose to play ace-rag). The only reason I make the flop call is last to act, otherwise I probably muck.

You have to remember to take into account how loose-tight and passive-aggressive the table is. You're saying on a loose table that isn't extremely aggressive after 3 people limp, you wouldn't play suited Arag... Sure it could be raised after you, but you already know 3 people limped and likely both blinds are playing. Do you need all 6 or so people to limp ahead of you before you decide to finally play Arag suited? This kind of hand is a moneymaker in really loose tables. You just have to know when to lay it down when you flop an ace. You can't apply tight table theories to a table where 7 people see an unraised flop. Yes, you have to play correctly postflop to not trap yourself, but how do you learn to do this if you don't play hands?

By being a reformed loose player Plus I get most of my holdem in these days in multis and SNGs, so you get forced into all sorts of bizarre spots.

[copernicus]

JFarrell20 said:

This is what I assume you mean. Because if I'm not mistaken, whoever calls the bet in one round has to lead out the next round.

You're mistaken.

[wrto4556]

copernicus said:

JFarrell20 said:

This is what I assume you mean. Because if I'm not mistaken, whoever calls the bet in one round has to lead out the next round.

You're mistaken.

I just choose not to respond...to any of his threads...at any time...to any topic.

[copernicus]

wrto4556 said:

copernicus said:

JFarrell20 said:

This is what I assume you mean. Because if I'm not mistaken, whoever calls the bet in one round has to lead out the next round.

You're mistaken.

I just choose not to respond...to any of his threads...at any time...to any topic.

Thanks for the tip, lol. I dont have the experience here to know whether a response could possibly have any value to the original poster. In this case the one post was a good clue though. :-)

[wrto4556]

JFarrell20 said:

Im assuming you are the 4556 guy...Raising pre-flop would have done nothing here b/c the guy with 67 was right in front of you and if it got called all the way around to him he would have surely called 50 cents more b/c the pot is bigger now and his call means pre-flop betting is over. He would have hit top pair on the flop and ended up winning anyway.Whoops I just realized you said after the flop...I wouldn't chase this. I wouldn't say you had a straight draw b/c it was runner-runner. And if the board made you 4-5, then someone with a 6 or 6-8 (unlikely they'd chase w/ 6 8 on that flop) has you beat with a community of 2 3 7 4 5. It's just middle pair. Plus, if your ace hits for second pair then the board would be 2 3 7 A, which means anyone chasing with 4-5 (very likely) just crushed you.

You're forgetting this one, too. I was like..."what are you talking about? You're missing the point of the post. Copernicus had it right."But I chose not to say it...until now...because I broke down...and can't handle not saying anthing...because I havn't fully learned to keep my mouth shut.

[Suited_Up]

The only time I play that hand at all is looking for a flush... if you missed it totally like that, just fold it. Don't try to force a winning hand out of very little.