15 replies to this topic

[wrto4556]

A decent semi-LAG player limps UTG, I raise next to act with A ,A , donky on my left calls, donky in seat 4 calls, everyone else folds, UTG calls.flop is 6 ,2 ,4 (8sb)UTG checks, I bet, donk calls, seat 4 raises, UTG (who almost raised out of turn) calls, I 3-bet, donk folds, seat 4 calls, UTG calls.Turn is the 6 (9BB)UTG checks, I check planning to fold for 2 and call 1.

[allinbluff35]

if you're planning to call 1 and fold 2 isn't bet/fold a good line?

[screech]

Strange hand. How aggressive is the donkey?My thinking here is that on the flop your opponents had: 1) mid pp's2) A6s, donkey could have something like 46s...3) A set4) Donkey could have 35s 5) Maybe 556) QuadsOf these, you are only ahead of the mid pp's and 55. Still, I like your line of thinking here. If you are against hands you beat, your 3-bet will slow the action down on the turn. A bet-call by your opponents makes it more likely you're ahead at this point (ahead of UTG anyway). A bet-raise however, is a pretty clear indication that you're drawing to 2 outs (if we're not dead).Since the bet-call line increases the chances that you may be ahead + the 4% chance that you'll hit an ace on the river, I think you should peel here getting 11:1.What was your thought process during the hand?

[wrto4556]

Quote

....line of thinking...

I cant bet/fold because the pot is too big.

[akishore]

i think you're giving up too easily.what if seat 4 bets with his A-4, and UTG, the tricky LAG (assuming he's a thinking player) checkraises now with his 8-8, knowing he can get you to fold a big pair?just one situation i thought of off the top of my head. i prefer betting out here. depending on who raises, you can reevaluate.aseem

[Ebonwoulfe]

You have to see what UTG wants to do with his hand, I think. His check on the turn could easily be a 6, hoping to check-raise, or a set, hoping to check-raise... he has two players behind him that seem eager to put money in, if he's capable of it he could be trying for it.I almost say check-raise if it's 1 back to you. Well, since you 3-bet the flop, nobody is likely to bite on a check-raise you might decide to pull on the turn. Forget the check-raise line. If you're behind, you've got 2 outs to catch up, and if you're ahead they probably have about 2 themselves. Alright, I give... I don't know if it's better to bet-call the turn, or check-call the turn... I don't think check-raising can be right, not with that flop line, unless you happen to trap someone with a mid-pp, which is very likely, at the same time soneone else doesn't have 22, 44, or any 6.I almost want to suggest that three-betting the flop was a poor idea, and instead calling the flop and possibly trapping UTG for 2 BB on the turn would have been a better line when you check-raised the late position raiser. This is, of course, assuming nobody has a 22, 44, or a 6... I dunno, I think that seems about right. The way you played it (it could easily be better than my bet flop-check raise turn line) makes me think a turn bet is best. Grr but you have outs if you don't bet, and when you have outs you usually want to see the river cheaper if you could be behind.And checking could induce a bluff, but is someone likely to bluff anyway with this many people in with that sort of flop action? I doubt it...

[Vade]

akishore said:

i think you're giving up too easily.what if seat 4 bets with his A-4, and UTG, the tricky LAG (assuming he's a thinking player) checkraises now with his 8-8, knowing he can get you to fold a big pair?just one situation i thought of off the top of my head. i prefer betting out here. depending on who raises, you can reevaluate.aseem

I'm with aseem. Betting out seems like a better play and then I'm folding to two bets back to meIf it's raise and a cold call I'm still seeing the river

[wrto4556]

why would a lag not 3-bet top pair?anyway, im not giving up on the hand. By checking, I give myself a better chance at a cheap showdown.I think bet/call is better than bet/fold and check/call(fold) is better than both.how often do you think im going to get raised on this turn when i bet?

[Ebonwoulfe]

Here's the thing, there's still value to get out of mid-pp's that might think they're good. How do we get that vaule with the least exposure to risk?Check/call bets? We get 1 BB for every bet the mid-pp bets. Low risk, you can usually play this way for 1 bet per round. Low profit - only 1 BB when you could go for more. Best for the situations where he would be agressive, but could get away from a mid PP or a lower board pair. As well, inducing bluffs is possible with this line. Bet out? We get 1 BB when they call, 2 if they raise/we call, 3 if we three-bet. Best for those times you know that he's aggressive and will raise. You risk at least 1 bet, usually 2 bets. Reward is much better than check/call, when you're ahead, but you run the risk of actually running into a hand. You get to close the action when you call, or if you choose to three-bet you can. Also good against someone who you think will call you down, but will slow down otherwise. Another benefit is that you are assured at least one bet this way, if they have something worth calling.Check-raise? We get 2 BB when they bet/call, 0 when they check, 3 if they reraise and we call, 4 if we cap. The risk is high- we put in 3 bets if he three-bets us, but we get in two if he only bets when we check but would only call if we bet. I think I would use this, but only if the late position player was highly aggressive or if my table image was pitiful.Of course the third player mucks this all up, but I would err on the side of aggression with another player in. I don't know why. I guess since the likelyhood of a bluff decreases, you can trust their actions more, and checking doesn't induce the bluff as often.

[Sundevils21]

First off, I thought you said you lead the turn. I said you were crazy and should check/fold the turn.I still say check fold the turn if there's any action behind you. I can see calling 1 person for 1 bet though.Overcalling for 1 bet?...meh-Travis

[Sundevils21]

Quote

how often do you think im going to get raised on this turn when i bet?

Is there a % higher than 100?-Travis

[KDawgCometh]

Sundevils21 said:

First off, I thought you said you lead the turn. I said you were crazy and should check/fold the turn.I still say check fold the turn if there's any action behind you. I can see calling 1 person for 1 bet though.Overcalling for 1 bet?...meh-Travis

I like this, and your avatar aseem, what on earth is a donk raising the flop with there that we now beat on the turn, and the LAG was planning on raising too, I don't like our hand all too much with the top card pairing there. the only logical hands are 77-JJ that a donk would cold call with, and the LAG involved in the hand makes the hand much trickier

[Smasharoo]

aseem, what on earth is a donk raising the flop with there that we now beat on the turn,24, 35, 77, 88, 99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AK, AQ, AJ.Etc.I check here, too, I'm not unhappy if it gets checked around.Good luck.

[akishore]

man, i think it's way too weak/tight to just check/fold this to two cold.just because the 6 paired you automatically assume you're beat??i bet out here to protect against the gutshot draws most often, but i don't mind checking since no overcard can come to beat you and now, aside from the gutshots, it's wa/wb since your opponents pairing their kicker will no matter make a difference, so they're usually drawing to two outs if they don't have a gutshot draw, or they're drawing dead, or you're drawing to two outs when you're up against a six.why do you assume someone has a six just because it paired???aseem

[KDawgCometh]

Smasharoo said:

35

has a straight

[Smasharoo]

has a straightOh yeah, oops. That narrows it down to those other 15 hands or whatever, I guess. Time to fold.