lhe, slumping

[Actuary 3]

both villans are about 50/8/ average pfa 26 handsParty Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Actuary is CO with 9d, 9c. UTG calls, 4 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.Flop: (6.50 SB) 2c, 5d, 4d (4 players)BB bets, BB calls, UTG calls.Turn: (6.25 BB) Qd (4 players)BB checks, UTG betsplease critque all streets and sugggest turn play and river options

[Smasharoo 0]

Folds getting only4 to 1 or whatever.Good luck.

[Actuary 3]

4:1 ?anticiapating BB c/r ?I did pick up a weak flush draw, btw.more discussion please.Villans waking up is my achilles heel.if i get 7:1, I'll need 6 outs...with a Str8 draw out and my 9d, can I get to 6 outs...

[akishore 0]

you're not calling this down. this is a fold.possibly drawing dead + overcard + passive player waking up + one guy to act behind you + pot on the small side = fold.aseem

[Actuary 3]

so how is this so much diff than the AJs hand I posted tonight?1. possible str8 draws on board2. villan wakes up on turn, in fact..riases this hand3 smaller potyes, i close the action there, and I have Top Pair.are those differences woirth 2 BB's?BB may be C/r'ing me, which would suckGetting these seeming minor things ingrained in my head would be nice.BTW: i called down..Q4 hearts.other hand...he had AJ too. I called it down as well.Not seeing the obvious differerence in these two hands is costing me $$$$.And makes for frustrating sessions.I should post more hands.

[Smasharoo 0]

Not seeing the obvious differerence in these two hands is costing me $$$$.You have TPTK in one and middle pair in the other.TPTK is better.Good luck.

[Actuary 3]

Not seeing the obvious differerence in these two hands is costing me $$$$.You have TPTK in one and middle pair in the other.TPTK is better.Good luck.

well, ok..I see that part.It seems that when Villan wakes up on turn in these games, he has TP beat..in this case, an overcard came on the turn...so it should be crystal clear to me to fold. More often, it a set or wack two pair and I have TP..and call down. This example is more stupid.

[akishore 0]

actuary, you are drawing MUCH more live in the other (AJs) hand than in this one.if you're up against a queen, you're drawing to two outs.if you're up against a flush, you're usually drawing dead. sometimes you're drawing live, but you won't know where you are on the river.in the otehr hand, if your opponent had two pair, you had odds to call.make sense?aseem

[Actuary 3]

yes.PP are pretty weak when the set doesn't come..much worse drawing hands, obvioulsy.When I have TPgK, I forget to consider all the board pairings that would beat other two pairs.But if you are up against a set, and have TPTK, you are drawing dead. How much do you discout for this possibility? And even if the board pairs, you can't raise the river, right?thanks!

[akishore 0]

yeah, sets happen, and you're drawing dead against those with just top pair, so discount your pot odds a small amount. the possibility that this checkraise is a bluff also almost negates the possibility of being up against a set, but not completely.yeah, generally dont raise the river when the board pairs. that's why you can't take implied odds into account in these things, because the reverse implied odds cancel it out.aseem

[screech 0]

4:1 ? anticiapating BB c/r ?

Pot on the turn is 6BB. Assume BB folds the turn and villian bets river.You are now risking 2BB to win 8, so your getting 4:1 to call down.

[Actuary 3]

4:1 ? anticiapating BB c/r ?

Pot on the turn is 6BB. Assume BB folds the turn and villian bets river.You are now risking 2BB to win 8, so your getting 4:1 to call down.

oh. duh..effective odds.