any value in betting river (nl)

[Blink20 0]

Standard check considering action on all streets, or any value of betting the river?Stats set at: VPIP/Preflop raise%/AggrfactorFlop/ # handsVillian : 58.5/2.4/.3/41*Loose/passive/passivePokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) converterUTG ($141.15)Button ($30.65)SB ($18.90)Hero ($183.50)Preflop: Hero is BB with [4s], [Qd]. 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB completes, Hero checks.Flop: ($3) [As], [7s], [4d] (3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.Turn: ($3) [Qc] (3 players)SB bets $3, Button calls $13, SB folds.River: ($32) [2s] (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.Final Pot: $32

[WonderfulSplash 0]

I would definately value bet this river, there is just too much he will call with that we have crushed.

[Blink20 0]

I would definately value bet this river, there is just too much he will call with that we have crushed.

You think so?The only real draw got there...And he had to call two cold on the turn. Any aces up has me beat, as well as a made flush on the river.I usually would value bet the river, but the action on the turn deterred me. I also figured I would have to pay off the flush, but if I checked he might bluff the flush, which was a silly thought because he's a very passive player, so he's only betting the flush in that spot, and everytime, I'm having to pay that off. But, he may not be value betting a better two pair...Hmm. I'm still not sure whether a bet is best, given action on turn and given what hit the river.

[WonderfulSplash 0]

I would definately value bet this river, there is just too much he will call with that we have crushed.

You think so?The only real draw got there...And he had to call two cold on the turn. Any aces up has me beat, as well as a made flush on the river.I usually would value bet the river, but the action on the turn deterred me. I also figured I would have to pay off the flush, but if I checked he might bluff the flush, which was a silly thought because he's a very passive player, so he's only betting the flush in that spot, and everytime, I'm having to pay that off. But, he may not be value betting a better two pair...Hmm. I'm still not sure whether a bet is best, given action on turn and given what hit the river.

Yeah i can't read....I thought the small blind called the raise, not the button. I think the check is fine in that case.

[NarSARSsist 0]

I dunno, I'd throw out a small bet, like at least $8. If you check and he takes that as a green light, ooo, that sucks...You raised to $13 when the pot was at $6, and he still called you. Hard to put him as drawing for that flush (plus, he might have taken a stab at the flop if he had a flush draw). If he has a queen, and thought that since nobody bothered with the flop, and his queen might be good, and bets a decent amount at the river, what do you do? If you make a small bet, he might just call it just to see. If he was shooting for something else, well, you've allowed him to do whatever he wants.

[Blink20 0]

I dunno, I'd throw out a small bet, like at least $8. If you check and he takes that as a green light, ooo, that sucks...You raised to $13 when the pot was at $6, and he still called you. Hard to put him as drawing for that flush (plus, he might have taken a stab at the flop if he had a flush draw). If he has a queen, and thought that since nobody bothered with the flop, and his queen might be good, and bets a decent amount at the river, what do you do? If you make a small bet, he might just call it just to see. If he was shooting for something else, well, you've allowed him to do whatever he wants.

I almost disagree with every line in your post :(First of all, the blocker bet, the small weak lead into the river, is usually a horrible idea. What's the point of making a bet to deter him from betting. Also look at the stack sizes, that would almost put him in on the river. But assuming he did have a big stack, then putting the weak lead on the river isn't going to deter a bluff much, its going to more so make me pay of a legitimate hand even more. I just went on a rant about those bets in actuary's thread about c alling a big bet bluff on the river, some discussion on that would be cool in that thread...Secondly, I don't think its hard to put him on a flush draw at all. Thats about the only legit unmade hand that could call on the turn in that spot. With implied odds of getting the rest of him money in on river, then he's almsot getting the right price, a flush draw makes sense here.If he bets a decent amount at river, I pretty much have to call here. Thing is, he can't bet too much after I just check, whereas if I built the pot more with a weak lead into river, then he can bluff or legit bet a bigger amount. That's why I see my check on river as good, I can always be swayed the other way, but not with the reasoning that I give him more opportunity to bluff by checking, b/c imo, that's not such a bad thing.....

[Smasharoo 0]

Your turn bet is fucking horrible.

[strategy 4]

Your turn bet is censored horrible.

He didn't bet the turn. He raised. What would you have done differently?

[Blink20 0]

Your turn bet is censored horrible.

He didn't bet the turn. He raised. What would you have done differently?

I am also curious as to your play on the turn.With my 3$ call, I essentially made a pot sized raise with two pair.What's your b et?

[Smasharoo 0]

With my 3$ call, I essentially made a pot sized raise with two pair.Right. This is what I don't understand. What's calling this bet that checked the flop that isn't beating you? I'm amazed he doesn't bet into you on this river. I think you're beat on the turn though.

[Blink20 0]

With my 3$ call, I essentially made a pot sized raise with two pair.Right. This is what I don't understand. What's calling this bet that checked the flop that isn't beating you? I'm amazed he doesn't bet into you on this river. I think you're beat on the turn though.

Flush draw.... any ace.... anything else stupid.I don't mind making an ace to fold here.What's your line on this turn? I can't see myself not betting my two pair for value here and to make draws pay. Usually when I bet, its pot sized bets, which I figured was right in this spot.I'm open to hear what you think the best bet is on the turn. A smaller raise?BTW, villian that cold called two bets, loose/passive/passive, but that info doesn't matter for turn play b/c I don't know whether he's calling or not...

[WonderfulSplash 0]

With my 3$ call, I essentially made a pot sized raise with two pair.Right. This is what I don't understand. What's calling this bet that checked the flop that isn't beating you? I'm amazed he doesn't bet into you on this river. I think you're beat on the turn though.

What do you do on this turn then?

[Smasharoo 0]

What's your line on this turn?I call here, and check behind or call a small river bet on most rivers. I may fold to a small bet on the river if the board pairs and counterfiets me. I may re-raise on a flush card to a smallish bet.

[Smasharoo 0]

You were beat on the turn, yeah?Or was he just a super buffalo.

[Blink20 0]

What's your line on this turn?I call here, and check behind or call a small river bet on most rivers. I may fold to a small bet on the river if the board pairs and counterfiets me. I may re-raise on a flush card to a smallish bet.

You do realize this is a four handed table at this point, does that affect your line?

[Blink20 0]

You were beat on the turn, yeah?Or was he just a super buffalo.

I already put his stats in the first post, super super buffalo.Might as well say result, he had A 5 o

[Smasharoo 0]

You do realize this is a four handed table at this point, does that affect your lineNo, not really.

[Smasharoo 0]

Well, good read I guess.I still don't like the turn raise against most players.

[Blink20 0]

Well, good read I guess.I still don't like the turn raise against most players.

And I still don't understand why...I'll get back to you when I figure it out though, until then, hopefully I find the reason not to raise my two pair on this board ....Good luck to me

[CobaltBlue 662]

Passive opponent doesn't bet his TPCK on the flop. He waits for a safe turn. Then, he donkishly thinks you're raising the turn with a queen or on a steal...and he has position. I don't mind the check on the river.