gin flop in a blind defense [5/10 lhe]

[Absolute 0]

I played this hand (this way) after hearin a small discussion Daniel and E-Dog had on the commentary for the PartyPoker Million Limit Hold'em event. I thought more about the hand they were talking about, then looked through my hand histories, and further considered how to play these sorts of hands.This is the first time since I had watched the particular hand that a situation likewise had come up.Table is 5-handed.I have 9 6 in the SB.It is folded to the CO, a tricky loose aggressive player, who raises (as he often did). The button folds, I call, and the BB [A very standard TAP player] calls.Flop [6 SB]8 10 J :heart:How do we play this given our information?

[Royal_Tour 0]

I played this hand (this way) after hearin a small discussion Daniel and E-Dog had on the commentary for the PartyPoker Million Limit Hold'em event. I thought more about the hand they were talking about, then looked through my hand histories, and further considered how to play these sorts of hands.This is the first time since I had watched the particular hand that a situation likewise had come up.Table is 5-handed.I have 9 6 in the SB.It is folded to the CO, a tricky loose aggressive player, who raises (as he often did). The button folds, I call, and the BB [A very standard TAP player] calls.Flop [6 SB]8 10 J :heart:How do we play this given our information?

check/raise

[CobaltBlue 662]

Just to throw something out there...Bet/call if the BB calls and bet/raise if the BB folds?

[Absolute 0]

How important is setting up good action on the turn here?

[CobaltBlue 662]

How is CO likely to react if we hit on the turn? (Both draws are pretty obvious.)

[Royal_Tour 0]

I'm gonna touch a little deeper on my reply.with the info given.heres my reasoning.As first to act. i'll check., with expectation that the aggresive CO will raise.its a SB, and if its checked to him, he's probably goin to bet out to see where the hand is at.If so, this is where i raise. You could take the pot down right here. If he calls and the turn brings a rag, I'd bet out again. confident that if he calls the turn, and river brings another rag, that a river bet would take the pot.or I'd check, and wait to see if he checks behind or not. If not., obviously a call and try to hit my draw.you have a very strong draw, I'm interested to know how u played itedit!.. well not so much strong. as it is just a good hand to make money from.

[Absolute 0]

I'm gonna touch a little deeper on my reply.with the info given.heres my reasoning.As first to act. i'll check., with expectation that the aggresive CO will raise.its a SB, and if its checked to him, he's probably goin to bet out to see where the hand is at.If so, this is where i raise. You could take the pot down right here. If he calls and the turn brings a rag, I'd bet out again. confident that if he calls the turn, and river brings another rag, that a river bet would take the pot.or I'd check, and wait to see if he checks behind or not. If not., obviously a call and try to hit my draw.you have a very strong draw, I'm interested to know how u played it

check-raising probably isolates the BBanother issue here is that we are very vulnerable to redraws.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I'm gonna touch a little deeper on my reply.with the info given.heres my reasoning.As first to act. i'll check., with expectation that the aggresive CO will raise.its a SB, and if its checked to him, he's probably goin to bet out to see where the hand is at.If so, this is where i raise. You could take the pot down right here. If he calls and the turn brings a rag, I'd bet out again. confident that if he calls the turn, and river brings another rag, that a river bet would take the pot.or I'd check, and wait to see if he checks behind or not. If not., obviously a call and try to hit my draw.you have a very strong draw, I'm interested to know how u played it

check-raising probably isolates the BBanother issue here is that we are very vulnerable to redraws.

so are u suggesting check/calling until we hit our hand., and our confident on no redraws?

[Absolute 0]

How is CO likely to react if we hit on the turn? (Both draws are pretty obvious.)

This is obviously a major part of concnern with this hand.One thing I have noticed playing 5/10 is that you have to learn how to set up tricky LAGs. You don't run in to nearly as many of them in micro stakes games.The BB is obviously a concern, but the object of this thread is how to get maximum value from a tricky aggressive player.I would like anyone who replies to also consider how they would play future streets given how they would play the flop.

[Absolute 0]

I'm gonna touch a little deeper on my reply.with the info given.heres my reasoning.As first to act. i'll check., with expectation that the aggresive CO will raise.its a SB, and if its checked to him, he's probably goin to bet out to see where the hand is at.If so, this is where i raise. You could take the pot down right here. If he calls and the turn brings a rag, I'd bet out again. confident that if he calls the turn, and river brings another rag, that a river bet would take the pot.or I'd check, and wait to see if he checks behind or not. If not., obviously a call and try to hit my draw.you have a very strong draw, I'm interested to know how u played it

check-raising probably isolates the BBanother issue here is that we are very vulnerable to redraws.

so are u suggesting check/calling until we hit our hand., and our confident on no redraws?

I am way too aggresive for that.check/calling could be an interesting suggestion though.the redraw statement wasn't relevant to your post really, it was just somethin I had forgot to add.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I'm gonna touch a little deeper on my reply.with the info given.heres my reasoning.As first to act. i'll check., with expectation that the aggresive CO will raise.its a SB, and if its checked to him, he's probably goin to bet out to see where the hand is at.If so, this is where i raise. You could take the pot down right here. If he calls and the turn brings a rag, I'd bet out again. confident that if he calls the turn, and river brings another rag, that a river bet would take the pot.or I'd check, and wait to see if he checks behind or not. If not., obviously a call and try to hit my draw.you have a very strong draw, I'm interested to know how u played it

check-raising probably isolates the BBanother issue here is that we are very vulnerable to redraws.

so are u suggesting check/calling until we hit our hand., and our confident on no redraws?

I am way too aggresive for that.check/calling could be an interesting suggestion though.the redraw statement wasn't relevant to your post really, it was just somethin I had forgot to add.

I'm still a beginner with higher stakes limit.Absolute,If this hand was heads up. How would u play it? in a heads up match

[BeanGW 0]

Absolute:I was very much torn between C/R and Bet/call, but I'm going for a bet/call on the flop.Reasons:I don't mind a raise from the CO. I've got the equity edge here more often than not. A raise from the CO will help me to play future streets if I miss my hand. For example: I bet, BB calls/folds (doesn't matter), CO raises, I call.Turn helps my hand: Bet/raise. Seems fine to the villain since I showed some aggression already.Turn doesn't help my hand: Check/call. Seems fine because he raised the flop.Other example: I bet, BB calls/folds, CO calls.I still may check/call a blank turn after my flop play if CO calls. The CO's smooth call would worry me, and if both villains call I will definitely need to improve to win the hand. This would be a tough street to play for me if CO just calls the flop and I don't improve. If you decide to C/R the flop, I think you want to bet out nearly all the time on the turn, whether it helps you or not. It seems to me that most cards that fall will either help your hand greatly or hurt your hand greatly. Your equity edge might go in the pooper to a certain extent when you miss. Even a non-heart 9 must worry you greatly.The other option would be to just check/call the flop and play the turn based upon your pot odds at that point. I think that would be bad because your hand has enough equity three-way where a bet would seem to be more prudent. May as well pump the pot while you've got the edge.

[amarillotg 0]

i like bet/call to try and trap the bb in the hand. i don't like check/raising here with a big draw.

[KDawgCometh 2]

I think that its time to pull a stop n go. YOu really need to lead with this sweet draw and you are the favorite by the river hit your hand(against a pair,or just a high card hand). Can this villian fold, cause we might be able to pull a semi bluff on the turn to maybe take it down with a CR whether we hit or not

[PROpOKER_101 0]

WOW YOU REALYL DONKED THIS ONE UP WHY ARE U COLD CALLING WITH 69 OUT OF POSITION SINCE YOU ALREADY DID U SHOULD BET THE FLOP AND GET BB TO COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE -ADVICE FROM THE PROS

[Royal_Tour 0]

WOW YOU REALYL DONKED THIS ONE UP WHY ARE U COLD CALLING WITH 69 OUT OF POSITION SINCE YOU ALREADY DID U SHOULD BET THE FLOP AND GET BB TO COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE -ADVICE FROM THE PROS

I think the original intend was that he planned to make a move on CO who was Agg.Maybe i'm way off here.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I bet/3-bet.You're a favorite on the flop against most hands, even if heads up. Why not get as much money in here as possible? Then, you can lead any turn as either a value bet if you hit or a semibluff if you miss - either way, your hand is well-disguised. (If both opponents are still in, maybe check/call an offsuit A, K, or 9).The defend is interesting, but I think I understand it - even though your position sucks, you are getting 3-1 if BB calls, and one pair could be good here. (I need to start defending the SB a little more often vs. aggressive players.)

[DKE_XP120 0]

WOW YOU REALYL DONKED THIS ONE UP WHY ARE U COLD CALLING WITH 69 OUT OF POSITION SINCE YOU ALREADY DID U SHOULD BET THE FLOP AND GET BB TO COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE -ADVICE FROM THE PROS

Its 5 handed.... ass... read the post already.Abs.I like the stop and go, lead out, let people call, and when he raises, let them stick for one more bet.

[DKE_XP120 0]

I bet/3-bet.You're a favorite on the flop against most hands, even if heads up. Why not get as much money in here as possible? Then, you can lead any turn as either a value bet if you hit or a semibluff if you miss - either way, your hand is well-disguised. (If both opponents are still in, maybe check/call an offsuit A, K, or 9).The defend is interesting, but I think I understand it - even though your position sucks, you are getting 3-1 if BB calls, and one pair could be good here. (I need to start defending the SB a little more often vs. aggressive players.)

The problem with 3 betting his raise, is that you scare off the BB in the middle***EDIT***on a side note,,, I went to warped tour yesterday and it was ****ing awesome

[akishore 0]

isn't this a standard bet/call?you want BB to stick around, and a checkraise would scare him off, and you don't want that.if CO just calls, that's great, you set yourself up for a nice semi-bluff on te turn whe you miss.if he raises, even better. just call, let the BB call, and check to him on the turn. if you miss, you can just call and let the BB call again. if you hit, you can put in a nice check/raise to protect from possible redraws.by bet/calling, you practically insure that the aggressive CO will bet the turn when checked to.aseem

[whoomprat 0]

Did MewithoutYou play? Those guys are on my short list of need to see bands.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

The problem with 3 betting his raise, is that you scare off the BB in the middle

Yeah, but is that so bad? If he folds here, he likely would have folded to a turn bet UI anyway, and at least we've already collected a bet from him by leading out. I don't mind folding him out here, especially if he has a redraw against us with a K or a high heart. And if we get it heads up, a turn semibluff is more likely to work, right? I think 3-betting disguises our hand really well, which is good on the turn whether we hit or not.

[PROpOKER_101 0]

WOW YOU REALYL DONKED THIS ONE UP WHY ARE U COLD CALLING WITH 69 OUT OF POSITION SINCE YOU ALREADY DID U SHOULD BET THE FLOP AND GET BB TO COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE -ADVICE FROM THE PROS

Its 5 handed.... ass... read the post already.Abs.I like the stop and go, lead out, let people call, and when he raises, let them stick for one more bet.

WOW GENIUS YOU SUCK 5-HANDED DOESNT MAKE COLD CALLING RAISES WITH GARBAGE OKAY. FOLD THIS CRAP AND MOVE ON

[PROpOKER_101 0]

WOW YOU REALYL DONKED THIS ONE UP WHY ARE U COLD CALLING WITH 69 OUT OF POSITION SINCE YOU ALREADY DID U SHOULD BET THE FLOP AND GET BB TO COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE -ADVICE FROM THE PROS

I think the original intend was that he planned to make a move on CO who was Agg.Maybe i'm way off here.

it is not a good idea to call raises with the intent of making a move on an aggressive player in limit hold em because it is so easy to call someone down even with ace high especially on a draw heavy flop like this where most likely everyone got a piece so you should bet and trap BB because you have so much equity threehanded

[Royal_Tour 0]

WOW YOU REALYL DONKED THIS ONE UP WHY ARE U COLD CALLING WITH 69 OUT OF POSITION SINCE YOU ALREADY DID U SHOULD BET THE FLOP AND GET BB TO COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE -ADVICE FROM THE PROS

I think the original intend was that he planned to make a move on CO who was Agg.Maybe i'm way off here.

it is not a good idea to call raises with the intent of making a move on an aggressive player in limit hold em because it is so easy to call someone down even with ace high especially on a draw heavy flop like this where most likely everyone got a piece so you should bet and trap BB because you have so much equity threehanded

wow.. an actual real post by PRO. without all the yelling.