14 replies to this topic

[Blink20]

I donked this one up pretty bad, as I do with most the hands I post :-)So my basic thoughts on this hand as I was playing it:-He's not going to fold any ace he called that preflop raise with, he's telling me he's committed, so i'm not moving him off an ace.-I'm either way ahead or way behind -Being out of position sucks-Maybe he won't make me pay as much if I just check/flat call, like I flopped set of aces (very rare chance, more hopefull thinking)I realize most of these thoughts is just attempts at trying to justify the wrong play, but thats what i was thinking during the hand.Read on villian: None :-( , seriously, I am working on my database for pokeroffice, adding every single hand I play now, I guess I haven't played this villian before. I don't track while i play b/c five tables, it slows down my computer. Nothing really stuck out about his play either, he's been sitting on same amount of chips for a while...PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) converterSB ($114.20)Hero ($141.50)UTG ($99)UTG+1 ($105.10)MP1 ($80.05)MP2 ($109.55)CO ($165.20)Button ($89.30)Preflop: Hero is BB with [Kh], [Ks]. 5 folds, Button calls $15.Flop: ($36.50) [Tc], [As], [9s] (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero calls $14.Turn: ($64.50) [Td] (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.River: ($64.50) [3s] (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.Final Pot: $64.50I think this play just further proves I'm a donkey :-) , thoughts?

[Kendren]

wa/wb. I think the flop bet that was lower than your raise would tell me something, tho. This looks to me like a PP that whiffed. QQ was my first thought.After his check behind on the turn, I might have bet this river.

[econ_tim]

I think I make a decent bet on the flop and fold to a raise.

[Blink20]

econ_tim said:

I think I make a decent bet on the flop and fold to a raise.

He calls flop, what do you do on turn?

[Blink20]

Kendren said:

wa/wb..

I read these posts all the time, never wanted to sound stupid by asking, but I may as well :-)What does that mean?

[econ_tim]

Blink20 said:

econ_tim said:

I think I make a decent bet on the flop and fold to a raise.

He calls flop, what do you do on turn?

Pee my pants? I don't know. Don't play much NL. Maybe Kendren is right. I know this would be WA/WB in limit. I don't know how well that transfers to NL, since the bets are a lot larger in relation to the pot.

[Kendren]

Blink20 said:

Kendren said:

wa/wb..

I read these posts all the time, never wanted to sound stupid by asking, but I may as well :-)What does that mean?

You said it yourself. way ahead/way behind.

[Blink20]

Kendren said:

Blink20 said:

Kendren said:

wa/wb..

I read these posts all the time, never wanted to sound stupid by asking, but I may as well :-)What does that mean?

You said it yourself. way ahead/way behind.

Awesome, now I know more lingo :-) , thanks.Maybe there's not much I can do. I figure most people will advocate leading the flop, as seems the most common answer when you have kings with ace on flop. But is that really the right play here, maybe the way I played it wasn't so horrible? What's the most compelling reason to lead the flop?

[Rocketwadster]

If you aren't going to bet out on that flop, I think you have to check-raise. Lucky for you, you basically got a free showdown by just calling that flop bet. Very weird hand. :?

[Blink20]

Rocketwadster said:

If you aren't going to bet out on that flop, I think you have to check-raise. . :?

Why?

[Kendren]

The reason I've heard most is to get as much value as possible from any hands not containing an A, and to maybe get a weak A to fold. Though in this case, after he alled a raise that big, he's not dropping any A, and by checking the flop and inducing a weak bet from him, you're doing the same thing.The more I'm thinking about this, I really think a 25-30 river value bet would be the best course. He's shown no aggression whatsoever after your flop call, and he may be hoping his PP holds up. I can also see this play with a weak A, but not so much.

[Rocketwadster]

Blink20 said:

Rocketwadster said:

If you aren't going to bet out on that flop, I think you have to check-raise. . :?

Why?

because just calling sucks there if you arent planning to make a move on a later street UI. You are ahead of a ton of hands, and only behind by a few that would have called that pre-flop re-raise IMO...remember that it is not the results of this one hand that matter, but rather the play of the hand... 8)

[BeanGW]

Haven't read responses.I don't mind the way you played it at all. If the pot hadn't been juiced PF, I would have liked to see a flop bet. But anything other than a pot sized bet will look (and be) very weak. If he's got an Ace, it's chip spewing.Your play forces the villain to make the decisions as to whether he wants to try sell his Ace to you, bluff, or just check it down from there.IMHO, NH.

[Blink20]

Rocketwadster said:

Blink20 said:

Rocketwadster said:

If you aren't going to bet out on that flop, I think you have to check-raise. . :?

Why?

because just calling sucks there if you arent planning to make a move on a later street UI. You are ahead of a ton of hands, and only behind by a few that would have called that pre-flop re-raise IMO...remember that it is not the results of this one hand that matter, but rather the play of the hand... 8)

I wasn't saying just calling was best because of results, i know they don't matter ;-)Im just wondering why you are saying just calling sucks, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I want to KNOW!! :-) I assume you mean to get full value of hand, to bet it, right?

[Rocketwadster]

Blink20 said:

Rocketwadster said:

Blink20 said:

Rocketwadster said:

If you aren't going to bet out on that flop, I think you have to check-raise. . :?

Why?

because just calling sucks there if you arent planning to make a move on a later street UI. You are ahead of a ton of hands, and only behind by a few that would have called that pre-flop re-raise IMO...remember that it is not the results of this one hand that matter, but rather the play of the hand... 8)

I wasn't saying just calling was best because of results, i know they don't matter ;-)Im just wondering why you are saying just calling sucks, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I want to KNOW!! :-) I assume you mean to get full value of hand, to bet it, right?

The hands that you are ahead of here (ie. pocket queens, maybe jacks) need to pay to hit their hands that could beat you. You are giving them a chance to win for free (you checked the flop when an ace came so they may think they are good here).As well, they won't necessarily fold to your bet, which will get you more value out of your hand.Finally, while I highly doubt that any ace-rag hand would have called you pre-flop, a check-raise on the flop would definately define your (likely) hand to them, possibly getting them to fold. 8)