Dude1101 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Its a great way to turn 5 bucks into possibly 3000 by playing a series of SNGS called "rounders". There are 5 rounds that you play. Round one is a 5 dollar entry into a single table 10 person SNG. The top 2 win an entry into round 2. The top 2 from round 2 go to round three. Then you need to place top 4 in round three and top 5 in round 4 to go to the final round. Round 5 pays the top 4 at: $3000, 1200, 800, and 500. I won 1200 on my third try and think this is the greatest thing ever. Link to post Share on other sites
superchuck 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 as long as u place in the top 4 every 50 times u play you will make a substantial amount of money. they have things like it at other sites, i believe they are called step tourneys. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 umm couldnt you just do the same thing on any site by yourself starting with $5 and if you win take the $25 and play in a $25 sng, and so on.... plus doing it this way you can stop anytime you want. just a thought... Link to post Share on other sites
justblaze 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 2 things:1. Party Poker has had this for a while now... 2. They are big ripoffs. The rolling vig means that some ludicrous number like 45% gets taken out of the prize pool before you can win any cash. Link to post Share on other sites
superchuck 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 umm couldnt you just do the same thing on any site by yourself starting with $5 and if you win take the $25 and play in a $25 sng, and so on.... plus doing it this way you can stop anytime you want. just a thought...no, because the money that others buy in with goes towards one huge prize pool. Link to post Share on other sites
Dude1101 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 you win tokens each round so you can play anytime you want, and I dont mind if they take money out, turning $5 into $1200 seems like a good deal to me... Link to post Share on other sites
CodyHartman 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Man I need to check out other sites. I just hate some of the hassles associated with starting at a new site. I have been at UB almost since the beginning and rarely play online.This idea sounds really cool though, the bad side to this though is the fact that you have to place well 5 times in a row in order to get paid, but yes the paydya is nice. Must be a lot of suckers who continually lose their money or the same 2,ooo people keep shuffling the $$ around and the site just takes their bite out of it.The thing on the vig is interesting any math major care to break this down for me. Or just tell me what the original vig is on the 5, my guess is 50 cents?? If I get bored I'll work on the math today at work. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 from what i see, you win a $5 sng you get say $25. you win a $25 sng you win like $125. you win a $100 sng you win $450. you win a $400 sng you win about $2000. i would rather take my chances doing this....... Link to post Share on other sites
superchuck 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 from what i see, you win a $5 sng you get say $25. you win a $25 sng you win like $125. you win a $100 sng you win $450. you win a $400 sng you win about $2000. i would rather take my chances doing this.......correct me if im wrong, but in the 2nd-4th rounds, dont like the top 2 or 3 advance, and not just the winner. For Example in round 2 they take the top 2 finishers, then in round 3 they take the top 3 finishers. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 from what i see, you win a $5 sng you get say $25. you win a $25 sng you win like $125. you win a $100 sng you win $450. you win a $400 sng you win about $2000. i would rather take my chances doing this.......correct me if im wrong, but in the 2nd-4th rounds, dont like the top 2 or 3 advance, and not just the winner. For Example in round 2 they take the top 2 finishers, then in round 3 they take the top 3 finishers.correct, but its the same if you just play a normal sng. say you won the first one you played and then finished 2nd in the 2nd one, youd still be up like $100. i think its just a suckers game, and theres better odds to just play one at a time. Link to post Share on other sites
Dude1101 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 from what i see, you win a $5 sng you get say $25. you win a $25 sng you win like $125. you win a $100 sng you win $450. you win a $400 sng you win about $2000. i would rather take my chances doing this.......[/quoteGood for you if you can win first place in every SNG you play. Its a lot easier for me two consistantly place top 3 than to place first everytime so a structure like this is perfect for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 some people may like it, but i would like to have the option of stopping with my profits whenever i want. i really think the odds of winning big money are better if you just do it one game at a time Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 from what i see, you win a $5 sng you get say $25. you win a $25 sng you win like $125. you win a $100 sng you win $450. you win a $400 sng you win about $2000. i would rather take my chances doing this.......correct me if im wrong, but in the 2nd-4th rounds, dont like the top 2 or 3 advance, and not just the winner. For Example in round 2 they take the top 2 finishers, then in round 3 they take the top 3 finishers.Well the one's on Party work that way... although they're all 2 tables... top 4 usually advance, and the later you get, up to I think top 7 or 8 can even get free entries to try again, at the same or lower level depending where you place. Which would be why it's better than just doing it yourself, even if you blow it late, you have another shot.Also, at Party... you can win 9,000, but the starting buy-in is $11. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 from what i see' date=' you win a $5 sng you get say $25. you win a $25 sng you win like $125. you win a $100 sng you win $450. you win a $400 sng you win about $2000. i would rather take my chances doing this.......[/quoteGood for you if you can win first place in every SNG you play. Its a lot easier for me two consistantly place top 3 than to place first everytime so a structure like this is perfect for me.[/quote']yeah i guess i see what you mean. i might have to try it out. Link to post Share on other sites
GoBucksIndy 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 "2 things: 1. Party Poker has had this for a while now... 2. They are big ripoffs. The rolling vig means that some ludicrous number like 45% gets taken out of the prize pool before you can win any cash."The vig is the same as in playing 5 different tournies, so I disagree that it's a ripoff. Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 "2 things: Â 1. Party Poker has had this for a while now... Â 2. They are big ripoffs. The rolling vig means that some ludicrous number like 45% gets taken out of the prize pool before you can win any cash."The vig is the same as in playing 5 different tournies, so I disagree that it's a ripoff.Also... how many one or two table tourney's do you know where you win $ in the thousands? If you want to do that you'll need to beat hundreds of other people...which makes it much more of a long shot. Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 "2 things: Â 1. Party Poker has had this for a while now... Â 2. They are big ripoffs. The rolling vig means that some ludicrous number like 45% gets taken out of the prize pool before you can win any cash."The vig is the same as in playing 5 different tournies, so I disagree that it's a ripoff.Also... how many one or two table tourney's do you know where you win $ in the thousands? If you want to do that you'll need to beat hundreds of other people...which makes it much more of a long shot.?? You ARE beating thousands of people, yo. You're just only seeing 9 at a time. It's just like any other tournament. They just break the tables up and redistribute the money (they do redistribute the money, right?) You're beating the same number of people.I'm not trying to be a downer, but these are just called "satellite tournaments." You pay for a 5 dollar satellite. You win! You get a buy-in to a 45 dollar satellite. You win! You get a buy-in to a 400 dollar satellite. You take second! You get a buy-in to an 1800 dollar satellite! It's a pretty nifty idea, and it generates action, but these are really just a series of satellites if you can't use your chips from your earlier table. Otherwise, their just tournaments where the tables break.Right?? Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Oh manSorry for the grammar mistake. I meant "they're" near the end there, not "their." Haha, but I did just use 3 homophones in the same sentence, so it was worth it. Eff Off Biatches!Sorry again,Ice Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 It's not really the same.... Say at party... you play 5 tournaments with 2 tables each... that's only 100 people total. To win $9000 you would have to enter that $10 buy-in to a tournament with a couple thousand people in it.2000 x 10= 20,000 prize pool... you'll get around 21% of that for 1st, which is what, a little over 4,000... if you beat 2000 people.But you can beat 100 total and win $9000. Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 It's not really the same.... Say at party... you play 5 tournaments with 2 tables each... that's only 100 people total. Â To win $9000 you would have to enter that $10 buy-in to a tournament with a couple thousand people in it.2000 x 10= 20,000 prize pool... you'll get around 21% of that for 1st, which is what, a little over 4,000... if you beat 2000 people.But you can beat 100 total and win $9000.Nope, sorryYou're not beating 100 people. Here's the setup:Rd 5 10 leftRd 4 20 leftRd 3 50 leftRd 2 250 leftRound One- 1250 entrantsAssuming the initial numbers you gave me were correct, you're outlasting 1250 people. Also, the total buy in is 6250, 750 of which is kept by the house, for a vig of exactly 12%.If anyone thinks my math is wrong, let me know. I scribbled it on a piece of paper with a crayon like a 3rd grader. Then, I put a smiley face on top, because I think I did good.Ice Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 How do you figure? It's 5 tournaments..... 2 tables each, 10 person a table. To me that's 100. If people win a seat, they can use it whenver they want... these games go on all the time, you can buy into the last round if you want... but in the end, you're only having to beat 100. Even less even, if you figure you only need to place top 4 to move on and then get in the money. So actually... if you can beat 15 people 5 times, you made a good investment.Where does 250 and all these numbers come from? Link to post Share on other sites
superchuck 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 from what i see, you win a $5 sng you get say $25. you win a $25 sng you win like $125. you win a $100 sng you win $450. you win a $400 sng you win about $2000. i would rather take my chances doing this.......correct me if im wrong, but in the 2nd-4th rounds, dont like the top 2 or 3 advance, and not just the winner. For Example in round 2 they take the top 2 finishers, then in round 3 they take the top 3 finishers.correct, but its the same if you just play a normal sng. say you won the first one you played and then finished 2nd in the 2nd one, youd still be up like $100. i think its just a suckers game, and theres better odds to just play one at a time.i see what your saying. Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Alright, let's look at this from a purely mathematical perspective. To make things easy, we're going to work backwards.Final Table- 10 people (no explanation needed)4th Round- Top five from each table move the the final table, or 1/2 of players. Ergo, 20 must have started the round.3rd round- 4 players from each table move the round 4, or 40%. 20 (4th round players) = 40% of 3rd rd. players. Therefore, some basic algebra tells us that there were 50 players that started the third round.2nd round- Only the top 2 move on, or 1/5. Using the same math (the basic alegra of 5 x 50) we know 250 must have made it to round 2.1st round- Only the top two advanced to round 2. Exact same math as above. 1250 must have started.No matter when or how you use these "tokens" you still must beat these odds to get paid off. Doesn't matter if you wait a month, you're still beating 1250 other players. Let me know if you still disagree and why. Ice Link to post Share on other sites
justblaze 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 from the RGP archives:On the face of it, the Steps tournaments at PartyPoker don't look like a very good deal, at least at the lower levels. You are locking your money into a multi-tiered satellite structure where it will be raked every Step of the way. I haven't seen anyone else crunch the numbers, so for those that are interested, I thought I'd analyze just how bad a deal it is.The nominal rake percentage at each Step ranges from 6% to just over 9%. That doesn't sound too terrible, but if you start at the bottom with a $11+$1 tournament, your money gets raked 5 times on the way to the top. That means only 68% of the money makes it to the cash payouts.That sounds bad enough, but it's actually much worse, because that 68% figure assumes the money rises straight to the top, getting raked once at each Step. However, the money is not rising straight to the top. At each level, some of the money is being cycled back to lower levels (or kept at the same level) to go through even more of the rake process.The end result of all that raking can't be calculated with a simple equation. You'd have to use linear algebra techniques that would give me a splitting headache if I even thought about them. Screw that. If someone wants to go through that hassle, more power to them.Luckily, though, the effective rake *can* be calculated numerically using a simple iterative process on a spreadsheet, which is what I did. If anyone wants to see how I did it, I can elaborate, but for now I'll just present the conclusions.In the end, if you put a million people into the Steps at level 1, each paying $12 (for a total of $12 million), only $3.44 million would ever get paid out to any players. The other $8.56 million (71% of the money) would be gobbled up by PartyPoker in rake.Put another way, that $11+$1 tournament is really a $3.44 + $8.56 tournament.Here are the effective rakes for each Step, assuming you buy into that Step directly. Most of the numbers are rounded off to the nearest dollar.Step Nominal buy-in Effective buy-in1 $11+$1 $3.44+$8.562 $50+$5 $25+$303 $200+$15 $138+$774 $500+$35 $434+$1015 $1000+$65 $1000+$65 Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Hmmmm... I don't know about that.If you look at the numbers at the very beginning of this post (who advances from each level), it's only a 12% vig. If those numbers are wrong, then my argument's shot. 1250 (at five bucks a pop) buy in for 6250. 5500 gets paid out at the end. Which means the system "gobbled up" about 725, for a house rake of 12%. I'm pretty sure that's the right math, guys.... Assuming, of course, that you ONLY start from the beginning, and all the numbers I've been given are right.Ice Link to post Share on other sites
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