actuary plays overcards

[Actuary 3]

I've been thru SSHe, and instead of just calling or folding all the time, I'm trying to incorporate some raises..with marginbal hands...to help win pots. For now, i'm not applying these principals correctly...as I can't think on the spot...After reviewing SSHE..I added commentary..please let me know where you can enforce or redirect...Opponents: about 25 hands...semi-loose....SB normal Agg for that level, Button passiveParty Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Actuary is UTG+1 with Jh, Qh. UTG calls, Actuary calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, BB checks.cool.Flop: (6.50 SB) 9h, 3d, 5s (6 players)BB bets, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls.not bad?DBFD, two so-so overs..maybe 5 outs totalTo win this pot, I'll have to clear some competitionFlop probably missed almost evryone, and most will fold to 2 betsBad?Pot really not big enough to fight hard for and my hand is likely not going to win even against 2/3 opponents2 players already in for one bet...can I eliminate the other 3?BB was kinda passive (few hands, so not solid read)..his bet into ragged board should signal he has a real handTurn: (7.25 BB) Ah (4 players)BB checks, UTG checks, Actuary bets, Button calls, BB calls, UTG folds.ok Raise cleared2 players..not really effective enough, but I now pick up the 2nd best flush draw SB checks...UTG checks....ok..they think I'm strong....great time to take a free card...so I BET??...I think this was the main mistake...But my thinking was: "Represent Strength..pots big enough now, only 3 opponents left...and I have decent equity with 3 opponents, making the bet close to ok on that merit (nah..not really...ok..stretching)However, since Button called two on the flop raise...and no good draws were there...he likely has a hand as well. And getting 3 to fold for one bet is impossible.So now..either no one thinks I have an Ace..or they have decent hands...River: (10.25 BB) Ac (3 players)BB checks, Actuary bets, Button calls, BB calls.ok..now the board could scare anyone w/o an Ace. And if they aren't Actuaries :-) , they might not think that this card indicates strongly that I never had an Ace....so I bet.I'm ok with this...one more time to try to win 10.25.I know I'm not winning the pot otherwise; and even though they had hands..possible trip Aces may get them to fold.No one else showed any strength after the flop action...and no draws came. (well, except for 2,4)Final Pot: 13.25 BBIn summary, ok..except turn bet stinks..take free card.Regardless of the mistakes made..something feels good about not just calling calling calling....folding...checking...as I would have done before taking this game seriously. I'll just have to tweak it some more!Please crtique the hand and the critique if you'd like.

[econ_tim 0]

I think the river bet pushed me over the edge.

[Mattnxtc 0]

I think the river bet pushed me over the edge.

time to give up on the hand on the river..just check and pray that ur queen is the high card needed

[Actuary 3]

I think the river bet pushed me over the edge.

and give up on 10.25 ?for 1 bet? i was trying to get my PF Agg factor up (sw)

[Mattnxtc 0]

I think the river bet pushed me over the edge.

and give up on 10.25 ?for 1 bet? i was trying to get my PF Agg factor up (sw)

with 2 left on the river at least 1 is going to call with the 9...

[akishore 0]

i dislike your flop raise.pot is way too small to play your overcards and backdoor draws profitably.i'm going to make a variation to your hand.preflop: actuary is BUTTON with QhJh.four players limp, actuary RAISES, big blind and four limpers call.flop: 9h x x (12 SB)four checks, guy bets, NOW actuary raises since 13-to-1 is clearly good enough to chase and the pot is much bigger and much more worth it.ORpreflop: actuary is UTG with AsJs.actuary raises, three cold-callers and BB calls.flop: 10s 9d xh (10 SB)BB bets out, NOW actuary raises since 11-to-1 is clearly enough to chase the overcards and TWO strong backdoor draws now.but in this example, the pot is so small, and your weak overcard outs are less valuable (you could turn a queen and still lose to a rivered ace, for example).also, you mentioned something else, that two players are already in. the more players that are already in, the more you want to be calling instead of raising. with runner-runner draws, you don't want to be raising for a free card. you also clearly don't have an equity edge to be raising, and a raise won't inrease your winning chances if no one will fold.turn.............. check and hope button checks behind. if button bets, that's better because he might have raised if you bet and that would suck. i know it's tempting for fold equity, but when 4 players go to the turn, you don't have fold equity. just check and hope for a free card.river............. eh. i don't know if you'll succeed here 1 in 11 times or so. if you estimate you will, go for it, but it's usually just chip spewing since the flop was so ragged and loose players don't fold their pairs.aseem

[Actuary 3]

Aseem:sounds like the flop raise set the stage for later mistakes..beccause I justify later acton due to the large pot. Why is it big?..because I raised with a weak hand.Your other examples were great, as I see the extra strength in those hands and a bigger pot (bigger from PF action) that drives the need to protect a hand that is quite able to win.So..on flop:1. hand too weak2. pot too smallto mess with raising to protect it, or for value.

[akishore 0]

yep, you got it.aseem

[Guest XXEddie]

I think the river bet pushed me over the edge.

[Guest XXEddie]

I think the river bet pushed me over the edge.

and give up on 10.25 ?for 1 bet? i was trying to get my PF Agg factor up (sw)

your opponent will think the excat same as they call with with a 9

[Canada 0]

In summary, ok..except turn bet stinks..take free card.

Here is another part of your problem.On the turn you have a player behind you still, so the decision to take the free card is not yours.The option for taking the freecard requires you to have position. Trying to get through 3 players at low limits with a flop raise is ambitious at best.This is another reason not to raise marginal hands out of position on the flop.

[Canada 0]

river............. eh. i don't know if you'll succeed here 1 in 11 times or so. if you estimate you will, go for it, but it's usually just chip spewing since the flop was so ragged and loose players don't fold their pairs.

Your river bet would have been more likely to work if you had 'woken up' on the turn, not that this was a hand for doing that - what I'm suggesting is always be aware of what you have 'represented' earlier in the hand

[Actuary 3]

thank you everyone.to put a bow on this....Button K 5 BB 9 5 So I was not even drawing to the best flushAnd SB never raised his two pair..second Ace may have nixed that thought.cool.. thanks againSame two players helped me make 11.50 BB on AA with an Ace on the flop..calling calling calling....lost HH so no idea what they had...

[wrto4556 0]

why on earth would you raise this flop?

[Actuary 3]

to thin the field"over cards prefer fewer opponents"I'm not saying I implemented this at the right time..just giving my excuse at the time. As Aseem noted, this hand is too weak and going for protection is jsut spewing.

[monoatomic 0]

Would a preflop raise have caused this hand to be played out differently?Is QhJh good enough for an UTG+1 raise after UTG limped?I don't play many full games anymore, but do you think the button or BB stays in the hand facing a raise?Another question, should a hand like this in that spot be a raise or fold, no flat call preflop?

[Actuary 3]

monoatomic:imo, it's a flat call all day long pf..it plays very very well multi-way..and not so well 2-3 way..especially against hands that would call a raise.as a side point..yeah..this Button would call..he called everything..I love him now.