Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The GoalTo turn $50 in my first Pokerstars deposit into $1000.The RulesI'll play only Limit games, primarily Holdem, though I might mix in some O8 or Stud etc. later on.I won't move up in limits without at least 300BB for the new limit. I will post hands that I win and lose and explain my thinking behind how I played them.I'm too lazy to spellcheck. Deal with it.Day 6 You can't beat these loose games!! Oh wait..I wasn't sure how many hands I wanted to get in today, but I knew I either wanted to break $70 or get a lot of hands in as I didn't have much of a day yesterday.I ended up playing about 150 hands, and have one fun hand where I get paid off big by a couple of 2nd best hands and one that's a good example of a pot equity raise with a marginal flush draw.Oh, I broke $70 naturally.Let's reflect on that for a minute for the sake of people who say you can't beat loose crazy games.I'm up over 200BB averaging well over 5BB/100 probably way over that in crazy loose games.Now, for the sake of fairness, there's no rake in these games, so that certainly helps my win rate, but it's clearly possible, and indeed very easy to beat them.Here's some hands:First, the quintissential example of WHAY LOOSE GAMES ARE GOOD:PokerStars Game #1099908010: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 18:55:35 (ET)Table 'Wurm' Seat #10 is the buttonSeat 3: greasgoon6 ($0.33 in chips) Seat 4: shift34 ($3.85 in chips) Seat 5: budlee ($0.60 in chips) Seat 6: CH666 ($0.78 in chips) Seat 7: sandb ($1.67 in chips) Seat 8: TOOL420 ($2.59 in chips) Seat 9: fantabulous ($3.46 in chips) Seat 10: thecandle ($6.03 in chips) greasgoon6: posts small blind $0.02shift34: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Ad Ac]Wired aces! Pockect Rockets! American Airlines!! Bullets!! I looked down to find these two staring back at me and the Star Spangled banner started playing in my head, I thanked the poker gods for their blessing and began to dance about the room!Sorry, I was chanelling VVP for a minute there.Anyway I'm allways happy to see aces and naturally raise with them.budlee: calls $0.05CH666: calls $0.05sandb: raises $0.05 to $0.10TOOL420: folds fantabulous: calls $0.10thecandle: raises $0.05 to $0.15greasgoon6: folds shift34: calls $0.10budlee: folds CH666: calls $0.10sandb: calls $0.05fantabulous: calls $0.05Even better, I get to THREE BET them and get what seems like 1000 callers. Ok, 4, but that's a lot to call a three-bet.Damn these crazy loose games!!*** FLOP *** [Ah 7c 4h]shift34: checks CH666: checks sandb: checks fantabulous: bets $0.05thecandle: raises $0.05 to $0.10shift34: calls $0.10CH666: folds sandb: calls $0.10fantabulous: raises $0.05 to $0.15thecandle: raises $0.05 to $0.20Betting is cappedshift34: calls $0.10sandb: calls $0.10fantabulous: calls $0.05Slowplay the set you say?I think that's a horrible idea here and I'll explain why right now!This pot is ENORMUS in terms of big bets. I want as much money in the middle with this hand as I can get. In large pots slowplaying is almost allways wrong. Most people are going to stick around for however many bets to see if they hit that miracle river card.Also I want flush draws paying as much as I can get them to here while I have a vulnerable set. If they fold, great.*** TURN *** [Ah 7c 4h] [7h]Perfect card for me. If you could have asked me "What card would you like on the turn, Smash? I'd have said "7h please".shift34: checks sandb: bets $0.10fantabulous: raises $0.10 to $0.20thecandle: raises $0.10 to $0.30shift34: folds sandb: raises $0.10 to $0.40Betting is cappedfantabulous: calls $0.20thecandle: calls $0.10In the back of my mind I'm thinking "Can't be quads again, twice in two days? NAHHH!"*** RIVER *** [Ah 7c 4h 7h] [Kd]sandb: checks fantabulous: bets $0.10thecandle: raises $0.10 to $0.20sandb: calls $0.20fantabulous: raises $0.10 to $0.30thecandle: raises $0.10 to $0.40Betting is cappedsandb: calls $0.20fantabulous: calls $0.10*** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Ad Ac] (a full house, Aces full of Sevens)sandb: mucks hand fantabulous: shows [7d As] (a full house, Sevens full of Aces)thecandle collected $4.02 from potOld Sandb had a pair of 8s.Yes, that's right. He had 88.Thanks for the donation man!Nothing like dragging a 40 BB pot in any limit.Here are a couple of maringal hands that demonstrate what I think is the reason many people have trouble with loose games.They fold too much. Here are a couple of call downs on scary boards that I make fairly regularly in loose games where the pots are big enough to warrant not folding.PokerStars Game #1099900458: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 18:53:51 (ET)Table 'Wurm' Seat #8 is the buttonSeat 3: greasgoon6 ($0.48 in chips) Seat 4: shift34 ($4.05 in chips) Seat 5: budlee ($0.60 in chips) Seat 6: CH666 ($0.78 in chips) Seat 7: sandb ($1.42 in chips) Seat 8: TOOL420 ($2.89 in chips) Seat 9: fantabulous ($3.48 in chips) Seat 10: thecandle ($5.61 in chips) fantabulous: posts small blind $0.02thecandle: posts big blind $0.05sandb: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [6h Ah]greasgoon6: calls $0.05shift34: folds budlee: folds CH666: folds sandb: raises $0.05 to $0.10TOOL420: folds fantabulous: folds thecandle: calls $0.05greasgoon6: calls $0.05I think this call is automatic from the BB with 4 people total in the hand.*** FLOP *** [5s 9h 4h]thecandle: checks greasgoon6: checks sandb: bets $0.05thecandle: calls $0.05greasgoon6: foldsFlush draw where I don't have enough callers to raise it for value and don't have position to make a free card play, but clearly have odds to call. *** TURN *** [5s 9h 4h] [Ac]thecandle: checks sandb: bets $0.10thecandle: calls $0.10I think there's an argument for rasing here for a couple of reasons, but I figure it costs me the same to call down without risking a re-raise with a weak ace and a flush draw.*** RIVER *** [5s 9h 4h Ac] [Td]thecandle: checks sandb: bets $0.10thecandle: calls $0.10I hope and pray that there isn't anyone reading this who lays this down here in this sized pot.I'm afraid there probably are.*** SHOW DOWN ***sandb: shows [Jd Jc] (a pair of Jacks)thecandle: shows [6h Ah] (a pair of Aces)thecandle collected $0.82 from potA BB special hand I think some people might incorrectly check down:PokerStars Game #1099896077: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 18:52:51 (ET)Table 'Hertha' Seat #10 is the buttonSeat 2: whtmntwoman ($0.25 in chips) Seat 5: thecandle ($4.05 in chips) Seat 6: silverbeard ($2.39 in chips) Seat 7: zigid ($0.19 in chips) Seat 8: sb2k2 ($2.42 in chips) Seat 9: malone77 ($0.55 in chips) Seat 10: KobaCtal ($1.82 in chips) whtmntwoman: posts small blind $0.02thecandle: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [8c Jh]silverbeard: calls $0.05zigid: folds sb2k2: calls $0.05malone77: folds KobaCtal: folds whtmntwoman: calls $0.03thecandle: checks *** FLOP *** [Ks Kh Js]whtmntwoman: checks thecandle: bets $0.05silverbeard: folds zigid leaves the tablesb2k2: folds whtmntwoman: calls $0.05*** TURN *** [Ks Kh Js] [2s]polishguy86 joins the table at seat #7 whtmntwoman: checks thecandle: bets $0.10whtmntwoman: calls $0.10*** RIVER *** [Ks Kh Js 2s] [9s]whtmntwoman: checks thecandle: checks *** SHOW DOWN ***whtmntwoman: shows [Ac 5c] (a pair of Kings)thecandle: shows [8c Jh] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)thecandle collected $0.50 from potPretty straight forward.The river check is correct I think as the only thing I can put this guy is on is the flush draw, and I can't bet into him here.Yet another BB special and a good example of a pot equity raise working out:PokerStars Game #1099807289: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 18:32:42 (ET)Table 'Wurm' Seat #7 is the buttonSeat 2: FX4x4 ($6.56 in chips) Seat 4: Kelltick ($3 in chips) Seat 5: budlee ($1 in chips) Seat 7: nicholle ($1.77 in chips) Seat 9: fantabulous ($2.53 in chips) Seat 10: thecandle ($3.48 in chips) fantabulous: posts small blind $0.02thecandle: posts big blind $0.05Kelltick: posts big blind $0.05budlee: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Tc 6c]FX4x4: calls $0.05Kelltick: checks budlee: checks nicholle: calls $0.05fantabulous: folds thecandle: checks *** FLOP *** [4c 5c 2h]Flopped an ok flush draw and a gutshot str8 draw.I check here thinking I'll either take the free card or raise it for value because of the very likely big pot equity edge I have here. I'd estimate I win this hand more than one time in three and I have three likely callers so I raise for value.thecandle: checks FX4x4: bets $0.05Kelltick: calls $0.05budlee: folds nicholle: calls $0.05thecandle: raises $0.05 to $0.10FX4x4: calls $0.05Kelltick: calls $0.05nicholle: calls $0.05*** TURN *** [4c 5c 2h] [Jd]thecandle: checks FX4x4: checks Kelltick: checks nicholle: bets $0.10thecandle: calls $0.10FX4x4: raises $0.10 to $0.20Kelltick: calls $0.20nicholle: calls $0.10thecandle: calls $0.10I'm not going to bore you with pot odds, but I clearly have to call here. One of the things my flop raise does it effectively tie me to the pot when I have so many outs. I'd have to be looking at like 3 cold here to even consider folding. On the other hand I don't now have odds to re-raise for value. If I had more callers, perhaps as little as one more, I would.*** RIVER *** [4c 5c 2h Jd] [9c]thecandle: checks Can I get the elusive stop and go check raise in?Can it be??FX4x4: bets $0.10Kelltick: calls $0.10nicholle: calls $0.10thecandle: raises $0.10 to $0.20FX4x4: calls $0.10Kelltick: calls $0.10nicholle: calls $0.10*** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Tc 6c] (a flush, Ten high)FX4x4: mucks hand Kelltick: mucks hand nicholle: mucks hand thecandle collected $2.27 from potYupResultsStarting Bankroll: $67.27Ending Bankroll: $72.58Playtime: 150 hands on the noseNet: $5.31BB/100: um..30? Too many. Two big pots will do that for a short session.I might get a few hundred hands in later tonight, but I need to grind some party 3/6 and do some actual writing that I get paid for. Link to post Share on other sites
The Student 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Great stuff again. I think i am starting to realize many of the bad moves I've made in online poker.Question: Just so i don't have to strain my brain any more during finals week, How much more before you move up in limit again? Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Question: Just so i don't have to strain my brain any more during finals week, How much more before you move up in limit again?I'll move to .25/.50 when I hit $150.If I for some reason have a bad run down to $100 I'll drop back down to .5/.10So a while yet till I move up.I haven't been playing all that many hands so far, but I'm gonna try to to crank out 1000 a week or so.I think that's a reasonable facsimile of what an ordinary starting player would get in.It's not a race for me. I'm aware there are faster ways to get to $1000. I want to be sure and play every day and post a lot of hands for new players to look at. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 That AA v. A7 is a lo like the one from rounders, lol Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Excellent stuff, Smash. Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Miner 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 hey great thread. can't argue with the way you played any of the hands you posted. Link to post Share on other sites
AllenRay4 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 awesome yet again -- probably the best one since day 1. i do have one thing i would like to see though smash. i would like to see a hand where you correctly FOLD on the turn or river to maybe show how you didnt have the pot odds, number of outs, etc. i will realize it wont be as fun or detailed of a hand but it'd be a nice curveball. thanksAaron Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 i would like to see a hand where you correctly FOLD on the turn or river to maybe show how you didnt have the pot odds, number of outs, etc. i will realize it wont be as fun or detailed of a hand but it'd be a nice curveball. thanksSure.Let me dig some up from today. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 PokerStars Game #1099928328: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 19:00:10 (ET)Table 'Wurm' Seat #8 is the buttonSeat 1: Maieye ($2.45 in chips) Seat 3: -CS- ($1 in chips) Seat 4: shift34 ($2.80 in chips) Seat 5: budlee ($0.86 in chips) Seat 6: Gamblinman69 ($1 in chips) Seat 8: TOOL420 ($4.26 in chips) Seat 10: thecandle ($9 in chips) thecandle: posts small blind $0.02Maieye: posts big blind $0.05-CS-: posts big blind $0.05Gamblinman69: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Jd 9h]-CS-: checks shift34: calls $0.05budlee: calls $0.05Gamblinman69: checks TOOL420: folds thecandle: calls $0.03Maieye: checks J9o is a hand I regularly complete with.*** FLOP *** [5h 8s 6h]thecandle: checks Maieye: bets $0.05-CS-: raises $0.05 to $0.10shift34: calls $0.10budlee: calls $0.10Gamblinman69: calls $0.10thecandle: folds Don't have the odds to chase a 7, particularly with the flush draw out there.PokerStars Game #1099922479: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 18:58:52 (ET)Table 'Hertha' Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 1: Striker Sue ($1.35 in chips) Seat 2: greyfoxII ($3.07 in chips) Seat 4: KamiJo ($0.33 in chips) Seat 5: thecandle ($3.83 in chips) Seat 6: ibara ($2.95 in chips) Seat 7: polishguy86 ($0.80 in chips) Seat 8: sb2k2 ($2.12 in chips) Seat 9: malone77 ($0.50 in chips) Seat 10: KobaCtal ($2.17 in chips) KobaCtal: posts small blind $0.02Striker Sue: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Th Tc]greyfoxII: folds KamiJo: calls $0.05thecandle: raises $0.05 to $0.10ibara: calls $0.10polishguy86: folds sb2k2: folds malone77: folds KobaCtal: calls $0.08Striker Sue: folds KamiJo: calls $0.05I raise TT in early postion, and get two callers.*** FLOP *** [Ah 2c 9c]Striker Sue leaves the tableKobaCtal: bets $0.05KamiJo: folds thecandle: calls $0.05ibara: calls $0.05I make a loose call for one SB on the flop to take a look and see if I can catch a T or if it's get checked around.Not a play I'd recommend, really, I don't have anywhere near the pot odds, but I called for whatever reason. *** TURN *** [Ah 2c 9c] [4s]KobaCtal: bets $0.10thecandle: folds I come to my senses and fold to the double sized bet.PokerStars Game #1099903826: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 18:54:37 (ET)Table 'Wurm' Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 3: greasgoon6 ($0.38 in chips) Seat 4: shift34 ($4.05 in chips) Seat 5: budlee ($0.60 in chips) Seat 6: CH666 ($0.78 in chips) Seat 7: sandb ($1.07 in chips) Seat 8: TOOL420 ($2.89 in chips) Seat 9: fantabulous ($3.46 in chips) Seat 10: thecandle ($6.08 in chips) thecandle: posts small blind $0.02greasgoon6: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [9c 4c]shift34: calls $0.05budlee: folds CH666: folds sandb: calls $0.05TOOL420: calls $0.05fantabulous: folds thecandle: calls $0.03greasgoon6: checks I complete the SB with any two suited cards, you should too.*** FLOP *** [Kc 6d Qh]thecandle: checks greasgoon6: checks shift34: checks sandb: bets $0.05TOOL420: calls $0.05thecandle: folds Missed the flop and fold. Link to post Share on other sites
bigkg 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I must say that i havent really been reading up on your previous posts on this topic, because i never bothered. I actually bothered to sit down and read this one, and i must say it was very good. I really enjoyed it and i am planning on reading the others immediately. Keep up the good work! Link to post Share on other sites
aneurysm 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I've been reading this forum for quite sometime now and have decided (perhaps wisely :wink: ) to refrain from posting until now. I play micro limits so this is quite insightful. Keep up the blog, it's interesting.Mike Link to post Share on other sites
monoatomic 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Just acouple questions for you smash.Do you table hop a lot or do you stick with the same table and just sit there till you are done?Do you find that any of the things you are doing now will change when you jump limits? Not to say that you are playing "wrong" but people that play .05/.10 limits aren't exactly "top players". Does your play change with "better" poker players or do you play about the same regardless of limit/players?I enjoy the articles you have done so far. Keep up the good work. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Just acouple questions for you smash.Do you table hop a lot or do you stick with the same table and just sit there till you are done?Do you find that any of the things you are doing now will change when you jump limits? Not to say that you are playing "wrong" but people that play .05/.10 limits aren't exactly "top players". Does your play change with "better" poker players or do you play about the same regardless of limit/players? I stay the same table.Even if it gets real shorthanded or heads up, but I'm a pretty good short-handed player and don't mind playing heads up at all.My play changes as the tables loose/tight passive/agressive nature changes.I won't limp in with A2 suited at a tight table. I'll threebet flop raises with TPTK at an agressive table a lot more, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
robby850 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 hey smash, just want to say , i thought this was a waste of time. I was wrong... you are really helping people out.I do not have the patience for micro limit because I can only play about 16 hours a week. I choose 10/20 or 15/30, recreationally. these threads are interesting and the responses went from 50 % negative to 10 % negative. Good luck on your quest to 1000. Keep plugging away. When you get to 1000 you should cash out and play a 1000 buy in live tourny, and make a parlay... Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 I figure when I get to $1000 Ill start a $1000 to $20000 thread... Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 I know I shouldnt answer this for him... but he said that he calls more against the loose players.Well, in big pots really.If I was playing 15/30 and it was capped pre-flop I'd be inclined to make more looseish calls there too. Link to post Share on other sites
KingAustin 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I figure when I get to $1000 Ill start a $1000 to $20000 thread...hahah, now that would be awesome. Personal question here... but how much would you say you make anually from poker, both online and in casinos? Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 but how much would you say you make anually from poker, both online and in casinos?Betwrrn 40k-50k. The vast vast vast majority of it from online.I probably made like 4k playing live last year, if that. Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Pleasure playing with you tonight Smash (at the O8 table ... I unfortunately contributed on that crazy nut low hand).Hope the rest of the evening went well for you. The O8 tables ended up being pretty fertile for me. One of the HE tables was OK, couldn't find a decent second one. Tried 4-tabling for the first time tonight and it was more manageable than I thought it would be. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Pleasure playing with you tonight Smash (at the O8 table ... I unfortunately contributed on that crazy nut low hand). Haha.I think I ended up even there.I realized I wasn't paying attention and was playing way too many hands. Sorry about the little comment there, I just think it's funny when two A2s cap it into the high.I moved to Stud 8 my weakest game by far and am working on it at .4/.8.Paying a lot more attnention there. Link to post Share on other sites
The Student 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I was sitting at the stud Hi/Lo table as Da Moose7, i suck at Stud, and I'm even worse at Hi/Lo anything, but i did get to watch Smash hit quad Q on fourth street. Link to post Share on other sites
MDXS 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 i did get to watch Smash hit quad Q on fourth street.Ah, you hit quads. I thought you were making reference to the quads that took out your full house the other day. My comment of "bummer" probably didn't fit... Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 I hit quads TWICE in this same Stud8 session.Once I got paid off once I didn't.I'm up like $2 which at .04/.08 seems pretty good, but what the hell do I know about Stud 8. (Not much). Link to post Share on other sites
Atlas 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 At the risk of repeating the other posters' sentiments I too thought the post was too long but that's b/c I've never read hand logs before. Very good after I sat down. And the spelling doesn't seem to be a problem either :-) Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 One of the hands playing O8 with Smash, I hit quad 2s and couldn't get a darn thing out of it.I realized I wasn't paying attention and was playing way too many hands. Sorry about the little comment there, I just think it's funny when two A2s cap it into the high. Yeah, I figured the third player in that little deal also had A2, but it was at a point where I really wasn't sure what to do with that hand. Those are points in O8 that I'm still trying to learn and thankfully at that limit, the lessons aren't expensive.But in playing 357 hands tonight, I definitely wound up in some situations where I could remember some of the things posted in these threads and making similar plays were definitely profitable. The final total (+31.93 BB/hr.) was quite ridiculous for the nearly 3-hour session, but no complaints here. Link to post Share on other sites
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