8 replies to this topic

[monoatomic]

So yesterday and today I went down to Foxwoods for my friends 21st.I show him the ropes, we have a good time, and we both signed up for the 8 am, NL tourney.170ish players in the tourney, I get down to the final 6. Buyin was $60.6th pays 3985th pays 5144th pays 7503rd pays 8002nd pays 12001st pays 2100I had gone into the final table 3rd in chips, but unfortunately I had about 28k in front of me, the ante is 500 and the blinds are 2000/4000.there were two "chip leaders' both guys had about 65-80k the rest of us were hovering around 21 (me on the shortstack) and 35k.I'm on the button with J 9 . It's folded around to me. I push all in trying to steal the blinds and the antes which is now 8500 chips.SB who had me covered by about 11k calls me with 88. I get three to my club flush giving me 15 outs to catch on the turn or river and the board bricks and I am out.Now the question at hand is this.Do I make that push there with that hand? Or do I wait out three hands and try and make a push with an A or two face. I am on the button and there very well may be two people busting before it gets back to me.If I fold here I would have had 20.5 and would have been facing 1500 for the next 3 hands ante's and then 8k for the upcoming blinds.I was kinda disappointed after the fact I pushed there as the very next hand someone else went out and 3 hands later another player went bust.Thoughts?

[mk]

I would wait for a better hand than J9o. You aren't in full out desperation mode, especially considering the fact that there are 3 other players with similar stacks.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

First of all, it's highly likely that the other two players wouldn't have busted if you hadn't busted before them. As always, that depends on a lot of other factors, and as Yogi Berra says... "If things were different, they wouldn't be the same."Meh. I think it wasn't catastrophically bad. A lot would have depended on my read on the blinds. Obviously, J9o isn't exactly premium... but I think a good situation to steal (button, uncalled, 8x BB push) is as important as the hand you're dealt. I definitely need to know how liberal or conservatively the two players to my left defend their blinds before I can push with rags, effectively. But, I can't say I've never pushed with rags as a shortstack into virgin-tight blinds from the button.I try to hold out if I have 8x BB left. 5x BB is when I start to get into "push on any ace-face" territory, so the blinds clock would have been a factor. But don't forget, you can sometimes get a pre-paid flop (not free, but prepaid : ) from the BB, flop a pair you can push into... and that's even better than a successful steal.Bottom line though... unless I had a strong read on the blinds, I'm pretty sure I'm folding J9o there. But, it even ended up okay for you, because you got a 50/50 race out of it. That's about as much as a desperate shortstack can hope for sometimes. Can't win tournaments if you can't win races.

[speedz99]

mk said:

I would wait for a better hand than J9o.  You aren't in full out desperation mode, especially considering the fact that there are 3 other players with similar stacks.

I agree. The fact that you can look at a few cheap hole cards before the BB comes around to you, coupled with the fact that there are other short stacks makes this a fold.

[monoatomic]

The way the table had been going,Folded to the CO or Button, they would raise all in and if the blinds didn't have an A, two face, or PP they would fold.If on of the big stacks was UTG or UTG+1 they would bet 30k and it would go fold around.

[guinevar]

Yes, I am probably waiting in this position to push. Hoping for at least Q7 or better but you pretty much have a decision to make before or at the BB.

[gobears]

I think that the push was fine - each round is costing you 9K in chips so I'm pushing with any two decent cards. J9o qualifies.Your M is 3 (actually lower, since you're six handed) - if you had won the hand, you move up to 3rd stack and a good chance at 1st.

[Suited_Up]

gobears said:

I think that the push was fine - each round is costing you 9K in chips so I'm pushing with any two decent cards.  J9o qualifies.Your M is 3 (actually lower, since you're six handed) - if you had won the hand, you move up to 3rd stack and a good chance at 1st.

You said what I was about to say.

[strategy]

There is no "better spot" here. There's 9k in the middle and you're sitting on a stack of 21k, and 3 people have already passed. This is an automatic push.While the pay does double between 6th and 3rd, the money is in 1st. You are not going to win this without taking a few blinds.