$50 to $1000 on pstars day 5 (or4 1/2 or whatever)

[Smasharoo 0]

The GoalTo turn $50 in my first Pokerstars deposit into $1000.The RulesI'll play only Limit games, primarily Holdem, though I might mix in some O8 or Stud etc. later on.I won't move up in limits without at least 300BB for the new limit. I will post hands that I win and lose and explain my thinking behind how I played them.I'm too lazy to spellcheck. Deal with it.Day 5 There's ups and there is downs, kid.Today I was delt a bunch of hands that went something like this: Get a great hand, flop it good, turn it great, bet the hell out of it, get sunk by a one outer (in once case a literal one outer) on the river. Next hand, get a good hand, raise it, bet it all the way, win a medium sized pot. Break even.I didn't get too many hands in, but that was pretty much the deal. Here are two hands in a row that expmlify what I'm talking about:PokerStars Game #1097762575: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 02:32:24 (ET)Table 'Altona' Seat #7 is the buttonSeat 1: thecandle ($4.67 in chips) Seat 2: lashes2 ($1.38 in chips) Seat 3: dmkmj ($1.38 in chips) Seat 4: ISO_$$$$ ($1.96 in chips) Seat 5: Spidey0034 ($0.30 in chips) Seat 6: Gaston23 ($5.21 in chips) Seat 7: RoachLOH ($1.58 in chips) Seat 9: Oldpath ($2.20 in chips) Seat 10: jellesi 3 ($0.70 in chips) Oldpath: posts small blind $0.02jellesi 3: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Kd Ks]This is good.thecandle: raises $0.05 to $0.10lashes2: folds dmkmj: folds ISO_$$$$: folds Spidey0034: calls $0.10Gaston23: folds RoachLOH: calls $0.10Oldpath: calls $0.08jellesi 3: folds *** FLOP *** [Ts 7s 5h]Oldpath: bets $0.05thecandle: raises $0.05 to $0.10Spidey0034: folds RoachLOH: folds Oldpath: raises $0.05 to $0.15thecandle: calls $0.05Hmm, this could be bad. A set maybe.*** TURN *** [Ts 7s 5h] [Kh]Oldpath: bets $0.10thecandle: raises $0.10 to $0.20Oldpath: raises $0.10 to $0.30thecandle: raises $0.10 to $0.40Betting is cappedOldpath: calls $0.10This is good!*** RIVER *** [Ts 7s 5h Kh] [5d]Oldpath: bets $0.10thecandle: raises $0.10 to $0.20Oldpath: raises $0.10 to $0.30thecandle: raises $0.10 to $0.40Betting is cappedOldpath: calls $0.10Sweet I'm going to get paid off by an underfull!*** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Kd Ks] (a full house, Kings full of Fives)Oldpath: shows [5c 5s] (four of a kind, Fives)Oldpath collected $2.35 from potthecandle said, "lol"Oh wait.So just to refresh the hand from my point of view. Way ahead preflop, like 80/20. Way behind on the flop like 10/90. Way ahead again on the turn like 98/2. Dead on the river to a one outer for a large pot. You want bad beats? I gots bad beats!!!Very next hand:PokerStars Game #1097764797: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/01/19 - 02:33:16 (ET)Table 'Altona' Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 1: thecandle ($3.62 in chips) Seat 2: lashes2 ($1.38 in chips) Seat 3: dmkmj ($1.38 in chips) Seat 4: ISO_$$$$ ($1.96 in chips) Seat 5: Spidey0034 ($0.20 in chips) Seat 6: Gaston23 ($5.21 in chips) Seat 7: RoachLOH ($1.48 in chips) Seat 9: Oldpath ($3.50 in chips) Seat 10: jellesi 3 ($0.65 in chips) jellesi 3: posts small blind $0.02thecandle said, "figures"I'm still clearly upset about the bad beat!! Well, laughing about it anyway.thecandle: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Ac Ks]lashes2: calls $0.05dmkmj: folds ISO_$$$$: folds Spidey0034: folds Gaston23: calls $0.05RoachLOH: folds Oldpath: folds jellesi 3: folds thecandle: raises $0.05 to $0.10lashes2: calls $0.05Gaston23: calls $0.05Again, not going to get into why you should raise with AK in the BB. You should and I do.*** FLOP *** [4h Kc 5d]thecandle: bets $0.05lashes2: calls $0.05Gaston23: calls $0.05*** TURN *** [4h Kc 5d] [5s]thecandle: bets $0.10lashes2: calls $0.10Gaston23: calls $0.10*** RIVER *** [4h Kc 5d 5s] [9h]thecandle: bets $0.10lashes2: calls $0.10Gaston23: folds *** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Ac Ks] (two pair, Kings and Fives)lashes2: mucks hand thecandle collected $0.97 from potIt was like that pretty much all day. Couldn't seem to get two hands together in either direction.Again I didn't get many hands in, but I somehow backed into a profit.ResultsStarting Bankroll: $65.56Ending Bankroll: $67.27Playtime: 100 hands? I didn't keep trackNet: $1.71BB/100: Not really sure. Maybe 10, maybe less.

[jayistheman 0]

ouch.... quads. i cant believe he didnt slow roll the set at all on the flop... maybe go for a CR on the big bets. lol.. guess in retrospect he played it "beautifully".by the way smash... for a few weeks before you started this journal, i didnt like u much. you always had good info, and were always willing to answer. The only problem was that you seemed to be a bit of a dick about it. That is no more though. this journal stuff is more informative and beneficial to an aspiring low (very low) limit player who would like to build a bankroll. I am sure that all of the newbies who asked questions and got nothing but flaming between you and a few others who will remain unnamed in response...but i must say. bravo. its been years since i built a bankroll in the 10c 20c tables, but its still fun to read.

[jeff_536 3]

1. was looking for you last night about 11 p.m. Would love to sit in at your table and observe. What time do you generally play?2. You've opened my eyes about how i should start playing poker. I'm very new to this, only been playing with play money so far, just trying to get a feel for the game. About to make my first investment and originally thought I was going to play a lot of SNGs, because that's what I play right now. However, the more i read from you, the more i think starting at the low-level ring tables is probably the way to go.I do enjoy reading your posts and hope you continue.

[justblaze 0]

Smash, this is not a criticism, so dont take it as one. However, i would like to discuss something with you. You comment that you should raise AK out of the bb. I would like to hear your reasoning for this if you dont mind. I play mid limits (5-10 to 15-30) so im not sure if you intend this advice to apply only to micro or not, but i have what i believe to be sound reasoning for why this is NOT a good play. Just interested to see the other side of the coin... I have a feeling you are going to tell me about how my equity figures to be higher than any limper, etc... right? If you have another reason i would very much like to hear it as i can make a valid argument as to why the equity answer is not necessarily complete.

[wrto4556 0]

1. was looking for you last night about 11 p.m. Would love to sit in at your table and observe. What time do you generally play?2. You've opened my eyes about how i should start playing poker. I'm very new to this, only been playing with play money so far, just trying to get a feel for the game. About to make my first investment and originally thought I was going to play a lot of SNGs, because that's what I play right now. However, the more i read from you, the more i think starting at the low-level ring tables is probably the way to go.I do enjoy reading your posts and hope you continue.

I'de like to hear it. I was going to give you the equity answer...that you should punish all the limpers with your superior hand. I think this may be only for low limits, though. Enlighten me, please.

[justblaze 0]

I'de like to hear it. I was going to give you the equity answer...that you should punish all the limpers with your superior hand. I think this may be only for low limits, though. Enlighten me, please.I guess it may make sense for micro limits where no one is thinking too much, but heres my theory with regards to mid limit poker:with a couple of limpers and no raisers, you figure to have good equity in the pot with AK. therefore, you would think that getting as much money in the pot as possible would be advisable. I would agree, except that raising preflop from the blinds is probably not the best way to do it. The reason is that in most mid limit games, by raising here you are basically sticking a big sign on your forehead that says "i have a big hand". If you hit the flop hard you are going to kill any action you would have gotten. Weak aces, and hands like KQ will be much less likely to give you action once they know you have a big hand. If you check and see the flop, and hit it hard, no one is going to put you on a big hand, figuring you for a random blind hand. This way, by the time you checkraise the turn it will be too late for them, and they will be committed to calling you down. Essentially, i figure you are losing money by raising. You lose your deception. You will advertise what you have, and only get action from hands that know what you have and have you beat. I guess not too many 5c 10c players are going to be thinking this much about it, though. I was involved in a big debate about raising from the blinds on RGP, you can google it if you like it has some very good arguments/insight (also a lot of "ur stupid, im right" type posts but you can ignore those ones). I post as Smellmuth, FYI.

[LIPOKERPACK 0]

Is how you plan on turning $50 into $1000 playing .5-.10 limit holdem. Even if you do make a 950$ profit, I'm pretty sure it will take much longer than 6 months. maybe 6 years. There is just not much skill in those small limit games, or maybe I should say micro-limit. Y dont you try to play a .50-$1 limit game(which is still micro-limit) Normally I will play the 1-2 N/L game, but in your case your b-roll is way too small for that. It is even to small for a 1-2 limit game (theoretically). But Ive found that if you play a strategically sound selective aggressive game, you will not go broke in a 1-2 NL game unless you get really unlucky. The players are less likely to fish for cards when they face larger bets than a .10 raise or a $1 raise. I dont kn ow if this would apply to your skill level, or risk tolernce, but if you are planning to turn 50$ into $1000, the rake is gonna prevent you from making any serious headway.Get back to me with your take, also I would like to know if you have profited so far, and by how much?-G-www.lipokerpack.com

[Frills 0]

He'll only play when he has 300x bankroll, expect to see him move up when he has it.

[LIPOKERPACK 0]

r u his poker coach?

[Wilderness 0]

I dont kn ow if this would apply to your skill level, or risk tolernce, but if you are planning to turn 50$ into $1000, the rake is gonna prevent you from making any serious headway.Get back to me with your take, also I would like to know if you have profited so far, and by how much?-G-www.lipokerpack.com

The point isn't to make any serious headway. The point is just to show how he does it, so people can observe and learn about his plays. A lot of people on here and online in general only play smaller limits, so this is a way for everyone to see how he plays and maybe take something from it or at least enjoy reading about it, not to make money quickly and move up in limits as fast as possible. If you'd read the earlier threads about the first couple of days, you'd see that he usually plays his little micro-limit table along with 3 tabling his usual 3-6 tables.

[justblaze 0]

hes not his poker coach, but smash has answered your stupid question already in about 3 or 4 threads. I will do it for him one last time. HE DOESNT NEED THE MONEY. HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT 1000$. HE IS FINANCIALLY SECURE AND A WINNING MID LIMIT PLAYER. HE IS DOING THIS AS AN EXPERIMENT, AND AS A LESSON TO MORONS LIKE YOU WHO THINK YOU WONT GO BROKE PLAYING 1-2 NL WITH A 60$ BANKROLL. HE IS ATTEMPTING TO DEMONSTRATE PROPER BANKROLL MANAGEMENT. as for your other comments, they have all been answered as well. Maybe you should read the posts you are replying to. He posts his daily profit each day, as well as his bankroll total. I know its complicated to subtract 50$ from that amount, but Grand and Toy sells calculators real cheap. Not only is his bankroll way too small for 1-2 limit (both theoretically and practically) it is way to small to handle normal variance in a .5 -1 game as well. His bankroll is proper for 5c 10c thats why hes playing it. AND PLEASE SHOW ME A 1-2 NL GAME WHERE YOU CAN RAISE $0.10 (and if you can find this supposed game, show me a player who is going to fold to a raise of 5% of the big blind). Oh, and as a percentage, the rake is virtually the same in 5c 10c games as 1-2 or any other low limit game. I think people just reply to things cuz they like seeing their little avatar on the left.

[LIPOKERPACK 0]

1st of all there was no hostility in my post, and I do not appreciate you being hostile to me or any other member here. I was just commenting on what I thought his posts were about. His post reads turning $50 into $1000. I dont have time to read through all of his threads , ok. I was basically inquiring on how he thought he would do this. Any my $1-2 n/l was just a suggestion. I dont play much n/l online or ring games b/c online poker is a sh*t trap for anyone and everyone. My time and effort is put in at the Taj in A.c in bigger games than that. So that answers your ingnorance and absurd assaults on me.And 2nd of all, just to let you know I have reported you to the site moderators, and hopefully your IP will be banned from this forum. We dont need people like you cursing and attacking other members.For now, good bye, for good.

[justblaze 0]

"There was no hostility in my post"i refer you to your post which reads "are you his poker coach?". Either that question was rhetorical and extremely sarcastic, which would be fairly hostile, or you asked that question honestly, which is a whole other story."I dont have time to read all his threads"You didnt have to, you just had to read more than the title."Online poker is a sh*t trap for anyone and everyone"I will assume you are insinuating that online poker is rigged. This is an argument made primarily by players who have lost money online. There is little logic or proof to it, but there are numerous logical and sound arguments as to why it is not rigged. I enumerated a very convincing one on this site. You should look into it. "That answers your ingnorance and absurd assaults on me"I guess you meant 'ignorance'. I suggest you look up the meaning of that word. Suggesting someone with a $60 roll play 1-2 NL is ignorant. As for 'absurd assaults' i answered logically the questions you posited, and refuted mathematically fallible suggestions you made. If you dont like my tone, you need to grow a thicker skin."just to let you know I have reported you to the site moderators, and hopefully your IP will be banned from this forum. We dont need people like you cursing and attacking other members."First of all, who is 'we'. Secondly, i challenge you to find one example of cursing in my post, or in any of my posts for that matter. I'll give you a hint, it cannot be done. This forum automatically censors objectionable language. Of course, you knew that, which is why you went through the trouble of inserting an asterisk into your lude description of excrement, which interestingly is the closest thing to 'cursing' in this thread. Should i forward THAT to the moderators?

[speedz99 145]

Maybe I'm missing something here.Many of you have said that you are learning a lot from Smash's posts. I personally haven't learned much from the four interesting hands that he posts per day. Did you all learn to raise with KK? This is only semi-sarcastic. If you have learned something from any of these first five posts, please share it with me. That way I'll know what to look for in the future.

[monoatomic 0]

I love how everyone makes these claims about their bankroll on a daily basis.Oh.... .10/.20 why play that?? My 50k I use at the Taj is way better then your 67.50 hahah I pwned you cause I am l33t pOk3r S7arz.If you can't pay attention then don't reply to a post. It CLEARLY states at the beginning of his post what he is doing. It states I will only move up when I have 300x the BB. Pretty much sums up at the top of the post what he is trying to do.

[jayistheman 0]

Maybe I'm missing something here.Many of you have said that you are learning a lot from Smash's posts. I personally haven't learned much from the four interesting hands that he posts per day. Did you all learn to raise with KK? This is only semi-sarcastic. If you have learned something from any of these first five posts, please share it with me. That way I'll know what to look for in the future.

if you've read the responses to his posts then you would learn that all the newbies who dont know bankroll management are absorbing some of this. they might pick up on how to play a hand every now and then too. i dunno what your bankroll is, or what limits you play.... quite frankly, i dont care. but there is no way you can deny the fact that this information is valuable to a very inexperienced player. there are quite a few of them here, and they are willing to absorb all of the information they can from more experienced players. i, havent learned anything from his posts that i didnt learn by losing my money when i was starting. maybe he can save a few people that trouble.

[ticccal 0]

"i, havent learned anything from his posts that i didnt learn by losing my money when i was starting. maybe he can save a few people that trouble."Exactly.....Now can he stop giving the newbies the heads up....lol(kind of a tangent, but there needs to be a shorthand for chuckling, when i type lol, I am not really lol.)

[jayistheman 0]

"i, havent learned anything from his posts that i didnt learn by losing my money when i was starting. maybe he can save a few people that trouble."Exactly.....Now can he stop giving the newbies the heads up....lol(kind of a tangent, but there needs to be a shorthand for chuckling, when i type lol, I am not really lol.)

damn... i dont know where that comma came from after the I at the beginnging of my sentence.... dont wanna start another grammar flame. :roll:

[Randy Reed 0]

I have to admit, at first I didn't get the whole micro-limit thing until I reread and noticed the 300BB criteria. Now I think it is a great idea as far as bankroll management and a guide for newbies to follow. Do I care if he makes $1.67 today? Well I guess so because I look forward to reading the dang thinkgs everyday, lol. I admitedly wouldn't have the patience to do it and find it admirable that he his, given that it's not "really" about the money. I have even pondered about the next step, which would be $150 to move up to 25/50 cents. I figure a couple weeks the way he's heading should be easy and then it will get more interestiing given the wild/loose nature of that level at Pokerstars.And finally, when he gets to that level I am interested in another thing. If you check on Pstars on any given day there is a player named EgoBoy who has been there for at least a year playing 4/5 tables at a time. He is the closest thing I've seen to a "bot" because he never talks. I don't believe in bots and it says he's from Sweden so I don't know if he can even speak English, but I've always wondered. He must rake everyday or play for the house or something though to be doing it so long. Maybe just sucking off the bottom feeders. Ha anyone else seen him? Pink Pig picture.

[Smasharoo 0]

have a feeling you are going to tell me about how my equity figures to be higher than any limper, etc... right? If you have another reason i would very much like to hear it as i can make a valid argument as to why the equity answer is not necessarily complete.Well it has to do with equity, but not just pot equity. At higher limits your raise does a couple of things. 1. You DO likely have an pot equity edge against a few players.2. You gain a lot of fold equity on the flop and later streets, which at 15/30 is not insignifigant. If you're playing 15/30 and no one raises before the BB, you're likely looking at some very weak hands, possibly some that you dominate like AT and some that are very likely to let go on the flop when they still might be ahead, particularly after your raise. Middle pairs, etc.3. It disguises your big pair raises out of the blinds. If you only raise AA - QQ out of the BB observant players will indeed give you less action. If you raise AK, AQ, and I'd even argue you should be raising AJ out of the BB in mid limit, you more likely to get action with AA, KK etc.The only reason I can think of for not raising AKo out of the BB in mid limit is a limp re-raise from a big pair, but honestly, I'm not unhappy to play it for three bets.I pick up a lot of pots in live mid limit play by check raising an unimproved AK on flops then betting the turn.Agression is rewarded in Holdem, especially against not terrible players at mid limits.

[KingAustin 0]

there is a player named EgoBoy who has been there for at least a year playing 4/5 tables at a time. He is the closest thing I've seen to a "bot" because he never talks.

Most people who play 3 or more tables at once are busy enough playing their games, let alone talk. So that might be why he doesnt talk.

[ForumMod 0]

Yeah I personally know a group of 4 guys.. No they DONT cheat, most of the time they're on different tables, who do the same thing, I'm going to try it once my bankroll can support it... They make pretty good money doing this, I just always take my money out to buy stuff... I'm horrible... its good to know who does this though, because you can skim money off of them, and stay OUT of there way when they're in a pot.

[justblaze 0]

Well it has to do with equity, but not just pot equity. At higher limits your raise does a couple of things. 1. You DO likely have an pot equity edge against a few players.2. You gain a lot of fold equity on the flop and later streets, which at 15/30 is not insignifigant. If you're playing 15/30 and no one raises before the BB, you're likely looking at some very weak hands, possibly some that you dominate like AT and some that are very likely to let go on the flop when they still might be ahead, particularly after your raise. Middle pairs, etc.3. It disguises your big pair raises out of the blinds. If you only raise AA - QQ out of the BB observant players will indeed give you less action. If you raise AK, AQ, and I'd even argue you should be raising AJ out of the BB in mid limit, you more likely to get action with AA, KK etc.The only reason I can think of for not raising AKo out of the BB in mid limit is a limp re-raise from a big pair, but honestly, I'm not unhappy to play it for three bets.I pick up a lot of pots in live mid limit play by check raising an unimproved AK on flops then betting the turn.Agression is rewarded in Holdem, especially against not terrible players at mid limits.

Holy Toledo, Batman, an intelligent response! What a rare treat from FCP. All kidding aside though, an interesting take. Point 3 was debated at great length on RGP. Would your view change depending on the # of limpers? I can see the fold equity argument with 2 maybe 3 limpers, but what about a table where 5-7 limp? You likely wont be able to buy that pot without a showdown, no matter what the stakes. And you are out of position to 4 or 5 hands now at least. Im not debating the equity edge, im just wondering how to extract max value from it.

[Smasharoo 0]

? I can see the fold equity argument with 2 maybe 3 limpers, but what about a table where 5-7 limp? You likely wont be able to buy that pot without a showdown, no matter what the stakes.You clearly have a massive pot equity edge against 5-7 limpers. Fold equity becomes less important in a pot that large, you're raising because you want more money in the pot with a hand that will win well over 20% of the time.

[TheIceman05 0]

Yeah, there are a few guys on Paradise who I always see playing in mid-low limit games, nonstop, 4 tables at once.I was 3 tabling 1-2 games (figured it was like 3-6 but with less variance and less skill) for a little bit, then I needed to, like, pay for some stuff. Plus I picked up some pretty bad habits. It's great for winning money, but it makes it pretty easy to become a poker-robot.Also, I'm pretty sure this Smasharoo character still IS a (bleep), but that doesn't change the fact that his posts are accurate and insightful and his motives seemingly altruistic. Except when he's making fun of people. Then he's just a (bleep). Which I wholeheartedly support. (Bleep) off, everyone,Ice