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why playing poker for a living is clearly sinful


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#1 japeto_mtg

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:07 PM

Like most things in the christian faith its why you do things not what you do. For instance lets consider this, a girl walking around with very little clothing trying to attract attention to herself sexually would be considered a sin. However lets say a girl on some tropical island walks around with barely anything on, it's not a sin if shes just trying to keep cool. When you play poker ask yourself why your playing. Is it to have fun? Or is it to take other people money. God put us on this earth to do something productive, not to sap off other peoples entertainment. Im not trying to say gambling is immoral, its why your doing in that makes it moral or immoral. So your thinking, "I play poker for fun and if i make money at it its just a nice side effect" ok thats fine keep playing and enjoy the game. However when you devote your life too it (or too much time to it) and you dont do anything else productive, then you are commiting a sin. And dont give me any of that crap about barry greenstien, lets see him donate a percentage of his cash game winnings and then well talk.

#2 Tritz

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:15 PM

I have a very simple solution to this problem. . .. . . well perhaps not for most people, but for me it worked. When I was in 7th grade I was in a Catholic Middle school and they pounded the faith right out of me, literally. So from then on I was atheist.god absolutly has no effect on my poker game whats so ever. That has worked well for me, but I understand not so well for others, and they will need to find a different way to deal with this delicate situation. :D

#3 SBriand

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:19 PM

Whoa, let me try and get this straight.If I play poker to take people's money than I am sinner.If I play poker for fun then I am not a sinner.Maybe I am missing something...

#4 Pupsta

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:20 PM

japeto_mtg said:

Like most things in the christian faith its why you do things not what you do. For instance lets consider this, a girl walking around with very little clothing trying to attract attention to herself sexually would be considered a sin. However lets say a girl on some tropical island walks around with barely anything on, it's not a sin if shes just trying to keep cool. When you play poker ask yourself why your playing. Is it to have fun? Or is it to take other people money. God put us on this earth to do something productive, not to sap off other peoples entertainment. Im not trying to say gambling is immoral, its why your doing in that makes it moral or immoral. So your thinking, "I play poker for fun and if i make money at it its just a nice side effect" ok thats fine keep playing and enjoy the game. However when you devote your life too it (or too much time to it) and you dont do anything else productive, then you are commiting a sin. And dont give me any of that crap about barry greenstien, lets see him donate a percentage of his cash game winnings and then well talk.
you're right, absolutely right....everybody in the city of hollywood sins because they sap off of people's entertainment with their movies. all musical artists, including christian artists, that don't give their cds away for free are sinning because they're "sapping off of people's entertainment." God forbid you operate a bowling alley. That's a boatload of entertainment you're sapping. You have the hottest place in hell to put your 16 lb balls.

#5 looshle

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:20 PM

The guy signed over $1 million straight to charity. Poker players play cash games to sustain their income, just like everyone out thier who works a 9-5, to sustain their income. He's given millions away when he could have just pocketed it, and yet you make it sound as if he hasnt really done anything. The day you fork over $1 million dollars out of the goodness of your heart is the day you can judge barry on how much he has donated.

#6 japeto_mtg

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:20 PM

nope ur not, try re-reading the post maybe ull understand it better the second time

#7 japeto_mtg

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:23 PM

barry greenstien didnt do anything if i had millions of dollars giving up a tournament win is no big deal if it makes me feel better about myself. as for bowling alleys and such, thats diffrent because without them no one could bowl, without pro card plaers people could still play poker.

#8 Pupsta

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:25 PM

japeto_mtg said:

barry greenstien didnt do anything if i had millions of dollars giving up a tournament win is no big deal if it makes me feel better about myself. as for bowling alleys and such, thats diffrent because without them no one could bowl, without pro card plaers people could still play poker.
lol...you have to make the least sense of a poster i've ever seen. without a bowling alley operator, you can still build your own lane and bowl! but wait...doesn't that mean that people in the lumber industry are sinners because they're sapping off of your entertainment?

#9 Awful

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:26 PM

Even if you play to take other's money, you are abiding by rules that an opponent has agreed to by their buying chips and sitting down. They are explicitly providing consent through their participation in the game. They are knowledgeable about the rules, know that they are gambling, that there's a house percentage and that there are opponents who may take their money. They are informed of the risks, and offered rewards if the cards come down for them. Under the same conditions, the Church accepts medical trials that may have severe physical side effects while serving to advance medicine. There is not even a direct reward for those who subject to trials, with substantially more risk. By offering less risk and greater direct rewards, poker, despite not being altruistic, must be acceptable by institutions allowing medical research based on informed consent.Only by playing a gambling addict or by cheating have you entered even a gray area regarding informed consent, where the issues of intent becomes an issue and you are commiting what is equivalent to fraud.Comparing the intent of poker players to those of a scantily-clad woman is not a proper comparison because the reaction to the intent is not an issue where consent is given, and because adultery is specified as a sin as well as one that can be committed entirely in the mind, according to scripture. Exposing someone to financial risk because they accept it is not a sin; if it is, then all business is sinful due to its basis on margins and competition and rewarding the most skilled. Business becomes unethical only when the playing field is tilted or if the buyers are severely deceived, and poker should follow that economic model. Don't cheat, don't rip off gambling addicts, and you're fine.

#10 japeto_mtg

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:29 PM

the person who bulds hisd own lane and bowls becomes the bowling alley operator.

#11 DiverDown4

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:30 PM

in the grand scheme of things, if you believe in god, do you really thinks who cares about gambling in the sense that its a hobby. There is no 11th commandment that says, "thou shalt not play texas holdem", i truly think that many other things are way more important things to consider in religion besides poker. Many will agree, many will disagree, but the true work of god is to respect each other and our decisions we make here on earth, the key is to not be judgemental of each other, that is what makes us god wants from us. Even if you dont believe in god, not judging people is a virtue even atheists can agree on.

#12 Pupsta

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:32 PM

japeto_mtg said:

the person who bulds hisd own lane and bowls becomes the bowling alley operator.
next time you come on to post, can you please put down your bong, or your crack pipe, or at least sober up a bit from your binge drinking before posting? It'd save the intelligent posters quite a bit of time. Thanks.

#13 japeto_mtg

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:33 PM

once again the problem is not palying cards its why u play them, even if everyone around u understands the risks involved its still mroally wrong to play the game as long as ur doing it for the money. Everyone sitting at the game with you is clearly(to you the expert) makinga mistake with his money, so really u playing in the game is alot like cheating, u know these people are at a disadvantage even though they dont nessesarily know it and yet u still play.

#14 oreogod

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:35 PM

I guess it really just comes down to whether religion has -EV or +EV in your life. For people who believe religion to be nothing more than a handful of fairy tales, your praddle matters not to them and they could care less. Hell I dont know where i stand on that topic, but I always ignore the opinions of the religous right especially when it comes to sin, because really thats what they seem to market most of todays actities as. I think u should live your life and press your opinion where it would most be welcome, which would be a church or some youth group out in the forest somewhere.And come on, Barry Greenstein does donate ALL of his cash winnings from his tournaments, we are talking millions of dollars here, yet u belittle him. Who the hell are u and how much have u donated to anything, besides an opinion that would be welcomed elsewhere. Because he donates millions, yet doesnt donate from his cash game he plays u want to talk him down? Guarrentee u that man has helped this world more than u have in anyway.Also people chose to play poker, by sitting at a table or playing online u accept the fact that u will win or lose money, so i do not feel bad in any way taking peoples money it was their choice to chance it in the first place, as was it mine.So yeah religion works for u but really who cares, we play cause we play its a selfish act like many things and if its sinful and bad oh well. Better to be a poker player than a bigot i say.Damn looks like i just wasted my first post here.

#15 Pupsta

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:37 PM

japeto_mtg said:

once again the problem is not palying cards its why u play them, even if everyone around u understands the risks involved its still mroally wrong to play the game as long as ur doing it for the money. Everyone sitting at the game with you is clearly(to you the expert) makinga mistake with his money, so really u playing in the game is alot like cheating, u know these people are at a disadvantage even though they dont nessesarily know it and yet u still play.
well damn, let's break up the patriots. they must be cheating! they're getting paid millions of our entertainment dollars to play, and they know they're better than the team they face, so they're all going to hell! agassi, sampras, the williams sisters, tiger woods, annika sorenstam, they'll all be rocking out with kurt cobain and frank sinatra in the fiery pits since they're all sinning as well, right?

#16 japeto_mtg

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:37 PM

barry greenstien is blessed with a great gift yet he only donates a small % of himself to charity. I donate as much as i can afford and so should he.

#17 japeto_mtg

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:39 PM

professional athletes are also sinning, they are waisting there life on a game, much like poker, where they take gross amount of money from the fans. Im not saying there shouldnt be organized sports, but you should have to hold a real job and not steal mone from the fans.

#18 Pupsta

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:40 PM

japeto_mtg said:

barry greenstien is blessed with a great gift yet he only donates a small % of himself to charity. I donate as much as i can afford and so should he.
since obviously, we should all follow in japeto_mtg's footsteps, and worship japeto_mtg, correct? since japeto_mtg is a deity and all, the model christian.

#19 Swift_Psycho

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:41 PM

I don't have a huge problem with your thinking japeto_mtg, but I think you are a little too harsh in saying that anyone who plays poker professionally is committing a sin. One could make the argument that because I beat out a struggling, single mother with three kids for a job as a computer programmer, and didn't relinquish the job to her, I'm committing a sin. Poker players need jobs too. Surely, some of them could go and work more grueling jobs for less money, but what is the incentive for that? I don't think it's a sin to play poker professionally, but a serious christian who plays should be donating a fair amount of their winnings to their church or charities or people they know who could really use the money (if they are making enough to be able to afford it). I do, however, think it is a sin to play professional poker and win millions of dollars and keep it all to yourself.And going back to the topic of more grueling jobs, many are jobs that are also forms of competition designed to try and take other people's money as well. If I work for a computer company, my efforts are going towards trying to make my company better so that they will earn more money. Ultimately, this leads to other companies losing money and perhaps going broke. By the way, I'm not involved with computers, it's just the example in my head right now. Anyhow, oftentimes someone else will have to lose money in order for me to gain it. It's just how the world works and it isn't specific to only poker.japeto_mtg, you have a clear understanding of the importance of how our intentions are important to God. But, I think you might be off a little bit on your opinion of this matter.

#20 Pupsta

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:41 PM

japeto_mtg said:

professional athletes are also sinning, they are waisting there life on a game, much like poker, where they take gross amount of money from the fans. Im not saying there shouldnt be organized sports, but you should have to hold a real job and not steal mone from the fans.
dammit! i must be sinning then for supporting these sports teams, so i'm putting money into a sinner's pocket. the sin is all around me!




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