29 replies to this topic

[KsItLoLnEeR]

(At the end I will tell you the result but try not to let that influence your opinion.)Ok, 1/2 NL at the Borgata yesterday. I have been at the table for about 2 hours and I have a good idea about most of the players at the table. The following hand comes up:At a typical loose table I am delt kq of diamonds in early position. I limp and there are a total of 4 people in the pot. Flop comes down 3d Ts 6d. I check, next person bets 5, everyone calls and its back to me and I am getting around 5-1 on a call. Turn comes 9d. Bingo I make the flush.Its checked around to me and I bet $15.Everyone folds except the sb who calls. The SB is a very talkative and funny older man from New York. He is loose with his calling but very tight with raising and reraising. He has about $500 in front of him. (I have around $250)The river comes 2c.He checks to me. Since he is loose with his calls I am thinking he may call a bet thats like half the pot or a little less. So I bet $25.He then proclaims "ALL IN"Then a mini Phil Helmuth runs around in my mind and screams "What is going on here?!?!"Adding up all the information and my read on this guy I truly FEEL I am beaten. So I fold.He turns over A5 of diamonds. He did have the A high flush. I had the dealer turn over my cards and he couldnt believe I layed that hand down. Then for the next 30 minutes he starts telling everyone he see's about the hand and how much of a great laydown it was and how he cant understand how I could lay that down and he would have gone broke, blah blah blah.I would have rather him not say anything because I didnt want anyone to know that I knew how to play. I like peope to think I am a donkey. Anyway, what are your thoughts on that laydown?I feel it was a very strong laydown, however I dont think its the greatest of all time or something so great that it was worthy of talking about it for the rest of the day. But he is certainly entitled to his opinion.He was however a very nice man for showing. I would have been thinking about that one for a while.

[justblaze]

forget the laydown, your river bet was terrible.

[Hold_Em]

Nice fold, I couldn't have done it theres no way to put him on this hand but i guess sometimes you have to go with your instincts. You are getting a little better then 2 to 1 on your money so I may have called knowing that i could win that hand a couple of times whie losing once.BTW...I have no clue where you got the 5 to 1 on the flop. 4 lmpers = $8 in pot, better bets $5 = 13 and you have to call 5. Thats less then 3 to 1 and your not really getting the odds to call but I would have done the same thing.

[BeanGW]

Pot was still small enough (compared to your stack) where the laydown was fine. Silly to call an all-in there on the river with only the 2nd nutz. Especially if he's generally a passive calling station type and this big raise was out of character.Personally, I probably would have raised preflop. I may have bet out the flop with two overs and the flush draw. I also might have bet bigger on the made flush to try to get a naked Ace of Diamonds out... or force them to pay for their redraw.Of course in this case that play might have only cost you more $$$... but generally I think it will make you more $$$. I don't play too much NL these, days, so maybe that's lousy.

[Steppin Razor]

If you were sure he had you, then laying it down was correct. Showing your cards was not. You don't want to be known as a guy who can be pushed off a hand. Not saying you are, but you don't want to be one of those people who pride themselves in good laydowns (I can't understand that. If I had quad Aces and sniffed out a straight flush, I'd be p*ssed I had to fold, not proud I knew what he had).

[KsItLoLnEeR]

"If you were sure he had you, then laying it down was correct. Showing your cards was not. You don't want to be known as a guy who can be pushed off a hand. Not saying you are, but you don't want to be one of those people who pride themselves in good laydowns (I can't understand that. If I had quad Aces and sniffed out a straight flush, I'd be p*ssed I had to fold, not proud I knew what he had)."I agree, however the 1/2 NL table I was at was like a party. Most of the players were not paying attention in addition people knew I was playing tight and I still got a ton of action. "BTW...I have no clue where you got the 5 to 1 on the flop. 4 lmpers = $8 in pot, better bets $5 = 13 and you have to call 5. Thats less then 3 to 1 and your not really getting the odds to call but I would have done the same thing."Im basicly giving a general idea of the hand. I think it was more like 4-1 or so, I think it basicly cost me $5 for like a $23 pot. I know what I wrote doesnt add up to that but I dont think I remembered all the betting correctly."forget the laydown, your river bet was terrible."My read before making the bet was wrong, and obviously if I KNEW BEFORE hand that he had me beat then it would be terrible. So how is it terrible? This is a guy that is a loose caller that very well would have called me down with 2 pair or worse. So if I do not put him on the only flush that can beat me, how is this a terrible bet? If I think I have the best hand, I am suposse to check the river even though I am facing a loose caller?Sorry man, I dont agree.

[justblaze]

"forget the laydown, your river bet was terrible." My read before making the bet was wrong, and obviously if I KNEW BEFORE hand that he had me beat then it would be terrible. So how is it terrible? This is a guy that is a loose caller that very well would have called me down with 2 pair or worse. So if I do not put him on the only flush that can beat me, how is this a terrible bet? If I think I have the best hand, I am suposse to check the river even though I am facing a loose caller? Sorry man, I dont agree.thats ok, you dont have to agree. its simply a fact. You made a ludicrously small bet into a big pot. the bet screams 'i have the nuts or close to it'. you arent getting much action from anyone without the absolute nuts or someone who realizes you dont have the Ah and wont risk your stack protecting the Kh. Either check, or make an appropriately sized bet.

[KsItLoLnEeR]

"thats ok, you dont have to agree. its simply a fact. You made a ludicrously small bet into a big pot. the bet screams 'i have the nuts or close to it'. you arent getting much action from anyone without the absolute nuts or someone who realizes you dont have the Ah and wont risk your stack protecting the Kh. Either check, or make an appropriately sized bet."I think that you are correct when referring to decent poker players. This is a 1/2 NL table with players making statements that they dont play AK because it loses more than it wins. We have a guy that I am facing who I know will call a bet. The question is how much will he call. I felt based on my read that he would call $25. This guy calls bets with top pair with str8 and flushes on the board. I bet about half the pot. How is this ludicrously small? He knows I am a tight player and I had been betting my big hands strong all day because I was getting a ton of action on them at this table. One other thing, There is no need to be condescending with comments like "You dont have to agree, its simply a fact". Just be cool man, we are talking about a poker hand. People come here to share their hands and learn about poker. No need for that.

[justblaze]

I think that you are correct when referring to decent poker players. This is a 1/2 NL table with players making statements that they dont play AK because it loses more than it wins. We have a guy that I am facing who I know will call a bet. The question is how much will he call. I felt based on my read that he would call $25. This guy calls bets with top pair with str8 and flushes on the board. I bet about half the pot. How is this ludicrously small? He knows I am a tight player and I had been betting my big hands strong all day because I was getting a ton of action on them at this table. without a specific read that this guy is a complete donkey, your bet is too small. i personally check in this spot because its highly plausible that someone is chasing down with the Ah. you have huge revers-implied odds here. However, if you are going to bet, you need to bet more than half the pot. its too obvious. One other thing, There is no need to be condescending with comments like "You dont have to agree, its simply a fact". Just be cool man, we are talking about a poker hand. People come here to share their hands and learn about poker. No need for that.listen, you asked for advice. you dont need to accept my advice, but i dont need to hear that you dont agree. if you dont agree, fine, so be it. why bother telling me? are you hoping ill change my mind? I wont, trust me. This is the internet, you're going to need a thicker skin than that. Ask around, see if my posts are respected.

[KsItLoLnEeR]

"without a specific read that this guy is a complete donkey, your bet is too small. i personally check in this spot because its highly plausible that someone is chasing down with the Ah. you have huge revers-implied odds here. However, if you are going to bet, you need to bet more than half the pot. its too obvious."Ace of hearts? You lost me. The bet is too obvious if this player is not a donkey. That is the point, this player was a donkey. So I agree with you if this is a decent player that is trying to read into my bets. That is not the case here. "listen, you asked for advice. you dont need to accept my advice, but i dont need to hear that you dont agree. if you dont agree, fine, so be it. why bother telling me? are you hoping ill change my mind? I wont, trust me. This is the internet, you're going to need a thicker skin than that. Ask around, see if my posts are respected."Its not about thick skin, it is just unnecassary to be condecending. Its a turn off. You seem to have more of a problem with the fact that I had the nerve to disagree with you. Anyway, no point in going further with this. Its all good. Good luck to you.

[greatwhite]

First of all, you probablly should have raised before the flop since you were the first person in the pot. (That may have knocked him out.) Secondly I didn't like your river bet. 3rdly I don't think I could of made that lay down. Good job! :-)

[speedz99]

Next time don't post results until you get the feedback.Ask around, see if my posts are respected.I've been around for quite a while and I have no idea who this guy is.

[richgambler]

BeanGW said:

Pot was still small enough (compared to your stack) where the laydown was fine. Silly to call an all-in there on the river with only the 2nd nutz. Especially if he's generally a passive calling station type and this big raise was out of character.Personally, I probably would have raised preflop. I may have bet out the flop with two overs and the flush draw. I also might have bet bigger on the made flush to try to get a naked Ace of Diamonds out... or force them to pay for their redraw.Of course in this case that play might have only cost you more $$$... but generally I think it will make you more $$$. I don't play too much NL these, days, so maybe that's lousy.

Nothing lousy about it....thats exactly how op should have played the hand....nice fold, bad river bet

[justblaze]

speedz99 said:

Next time don't post results until you get the feedback.Ask around, see if my posts are respected.I've been around for quite a while and I have no idea who this guy is.

im steve urkel. is that how you spell urkel? urkle? erkul? aww, fuck it. im the nerdy black guy from tv.

[richgambler]

justblaze said:

thats ok, you dont have to agree. its simply a fact. You made a ludicrously small bet into a big pot. the bet screams 'i have the nuts or close to it'. you arent getting much action from anyone without the absolute nuts or someone who realizes you dont have the Ah and wont risk your stack protecting the Kh. Either check, or make an appropriately sized bet.

:clap: In the words of Meatloaf..."You took the words right outta my mouth..."

[justblaze]

richgambler said:

justblaze said:

thats ok, you dont have to agree. its simply a fact. You made a ludicrously small bet into a big pot. the bet screams 'i have the nuts or close to it'. you arent getting much action from anyone without the absolute nuts or someone who realizes you dont have the Ah and wont risk your stack protecting the Kh. Either check, or make an appropriately sized bet.

:clap: In the words of Meatloaf..."You took the words right outta my mouth..."

mmm, meatloaf.

[KDawgCometh]

speedz99 said:

Next time don't post results until you get the feedback.Ask around, see if my posts are respected.I've been around for quite a while and I have no idea who this guy is.

uhh, a lot of people know who JustBlaze is. YOu spend too much time in gen pop, that's why

[speedz99]

KDawgCometh said:

speedz99 said:

Next time don't post results until you get the feedback.Ask around, see if my posts are respected.I've been around for quite a while and I have no idea who this guy is.

uhh, a lot of people know who JustBlaze is. YOu spend too much time in gen pop, that's why

I was kidding, dink.EDIT: yes, I just called you a dink. I post mostly on General but spend probably half my time on Strategy. I just don't post much here because I am still learning and don't assume to know more than the guys who are actually asking the questions.

[KDawgCometh]

speedz99 said:

KDawgCometh said:

speedz99 said:

Next time don't post results until you get the feedback.Ask around, see if my posts are respected.I've been around for quite a while and I have no idea who this guy is.

uhh, a lot of people know who JustBlaze is. YOu spend too much time in gen pop, that's why

I was kidding, dink.

you still spend too much time in gen pop

[speedz99]

See my edit in the previous post.