14 replies to this topic

[DKE_XP120]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is CO with K:club:, K:spade:. 4 folds.Flop: (5.50 SB) 3:heart:, 2:spade:, A:heart: (2 players)Hero bets, Hero calls.Turn: (6.75 BB) T:diamond: (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 7.75 BB57/2/2.02 over less than a 100 hands.... Would a call down have been better?

[joeltebbutt]

With 2 other players in and a capped flop. Unless I've got a good read on the players I'm folding as well.

[DKE_XP120]

joeltebbutt said:

With 2 other players in and a capped flop. Unless I've got a good read on the players I'm folding as well.

check again, its HU

[Actuary]

I don't like it.1. Did you think he would not call the flop cap ?2. Would you expect him to then check the turn ?if the answer to both of these is "No"then why cap the flop ?He has to lead the turn to repesent, no ?What does he have? cold calling pre-flop in postion in a shrt handed pot. AJ-A10, AJs-A8s, KQs/o, 77-99... or crapIf you fold this turn..then fold his flop raise and save 2 SB's.You are giving up 6.75+1+1=8.75 for 2 BB. And I think there are too many possible hands (and 2 outs too boot) villan could have. Folding looks real weak here and he will note it..whether he has an Ace or not.Yes, most hands beat you, but I think 8.75 to 2 is good enough.jmo..I still suckedit for clarification:The first 2 questions are dsigned to show that capping was fine (preferred), but don't base your turn decision on his turn bet. Yuo had to know he would lead the turn from his 3-bet on the flop. Thus, if yuo fold the turn..then go back and fold the 3-bet on the flop.

[DKE_XP120]

Hoping you plan to edit again, when you notice i didnt cap, he did

[speedz99]

Actuary said:

I don't like it.1. Did you think he would not call the flop cap ?2. Would you expect him to then check the turn ?if the answer to both of these is "No"then why cap the flop ?He has to lead the turn to repesent, no ?What does he have? cold calling pre-flop in postion in a shrt handed pot. AJ-A10, AJs-A8s, KQs/o, 77-99... or crapIf you fold this turn..then fold his flop raise and save 2 SB's.You are giving up 6.75+1+1=8.75 for 2 BB. And I think there are too many possible hands (and 2 outs too boot) villan could have. Folding looks real weak here and he will note it..whether he has an Ace or not.Yes, most hands beat you, but I think 8.75 to 2 is good enough.jmo..I still suckedit for clarification:The first 2 questions are dsigned to show that capping was fine (preferred), but don't base your turn decision on his turn bet. Yuo had to know he would lead the turn from his 3-bet on the flop. Thus, if yuo fold the turn..then go back and fold the 3-bet on the flop.

Your number of posts has risen dramatically since I last stopped in strategy (which I'm going to start more often again). Other than the fact that you misread the hand history, you're critiques have definately improved. Nicely done.

[akishore]

i don't like it really.you bet the flop, he raises, you should call here. a three-bet doesn't accomplish much against a somewhat loose/passive player.you have no fold equity and all you're doing is retaining control of the hand and being obligated to bet against a player who probably has you beat and is probably not folding.call the flop raise and check/fold the turn unimproved.small pot.aseem

[Actuary]

How do I miss that stuff.Gotta quit posting at work!ok..I'll say this:Don't call the cap if you are going to fold the turn UI.Just save yourself 1 sb and fold his cap bet.Or better yet, hide like a girl when he raised the flop the first time, and save 2 SB'sKK is a drawing hand. :roll: Even gives more weight to the question:You knew he was leading the turn right ?you had about 13 : 1 on the cap call...not enough to see 1 card...well we could add 3 BB's if you hit K and riased and then got 1 bet on the river...So calling cap was 1 SB to win at best 12.50 + 2*3 (converting to SB's) = 18.5 SB's. Odds to catch K is 45 : 2 againstMeaning, if you are afraid of the Ace..and you will fold the turn UI..you don't have odds to call the cap bet.. Am I screwing something up?sorry to be longwinded.I stick to calling it down.You need to see the river.

[Actuary]

my.best.post.ever.can I nominate myself?

[akishore]

actuary,"loose flop calls" in SSHE.we're almost always folding this turn UI. but, you should still call the flop raise since you have outs.aseem

[DKE_XP120]

i fully agree with you Aseem... my thinking at the time (not always clear latey) Was if I 3 bet, it can help me decide if he Def. has the ace, or its just a possibility, perhaps worthy of a call down. He looks loose passive, but remember, his VP$IP is so high, having a 2.0+ AF is rather aggressive.

[Actuary]

Aseem: cool..i'm not there yet...just started River section.I like the play..except the turn fold.Why call the cap?There's not enough in the pot to take one off ? no ?Seems like you only have odds to call the cap if you are committed to seeing both cards.Now on the turn call..you would no longer have good odds ( 9.75 to 1) if you get 2 bets out of him on the river. However, in light of spewing, I think this is good enough to show down KK. Maybe not..maybe you are 90%+ sure he has an Ace. Seeing what he cold called pre-flop with might be worth paying for + the chance he's being tricky.I go bakc to: Why call the cap...if you're folding turn UI ?

[akishore]

just read the section on loose flop calls.i'm not ed miller; i wouldn't do it justice summarizing the read.aseem

[akishore]

DKE_XP120 said:

i fully agree with you Aseem... my thinking at the time (not always clear latey) Was if I 3 bet, it can help me decide if he Def. has the ace, or its just a possibility, perhaps worthy of a call down. He looks loose passive, but remember, his VP$IP is so high, having a 2.0+ AF is rather aggressive.

that's a good point.if you want to solidify your read, calling down isn't terrible. in that case, though, treat it as a wa/wb situation since you're drawing to two outs when you're behind and are decently ahead when you have the best hand. just put in one or two bets at most on each street. so, call the flop raise, bet/call the flop, and depending on the river, bet/call or check/call the river.but, it's still a fairly small pot so i would still lean towards calling the flop raise and check/folding the turn unimproved.aseem

[akishore]

DKE_XP120 said:

my thinking at the time (not always clear latey) Was if I 3 bet, it can help me decide if he Def. has the ace, or its just a possibility, perhaps worthy of a call down.

by the way, you could probably use the help of ed miller here.http://archiveserver...=5&o=14&fpart=1this is mainly the gist of my argument why three-betting sucked.everyone should read that thread.aseem