am i a fish, or was this fine? ($1/2 limit he)

[akishore 0]

$1/2 limit he, absolute poker, six-handedpre-flop: akishore is BB with Q Q . EP posts to play.EP (poster) raises, EP calls.flop: A 4 2 (15 SB, 4 players)SB checks, akishore checks, EP bets.turn: 6 (9 BB, 4 players)SB checks, akishore checks, EP bets, MP folds, SB calls, akishore calls.river: Q (12 BB, 3 players)SB checks, akishore checks (with the intention of raising a bet from EP), ...fishy, or okay?aseem

[TheIceman05 0]

Absofriggintutely poifect.Pot's huge, and it's wrong to fold this hand getting 16-1 on this flop. Here's my question. What would you have done getting 10-1 on the turn if an offsuit deuce came off instead of a card that gave you the flushdraw?Think you're ahead here 1/11 times? Curious,Ice

[Kendren 1]

Glubglub? (j/k)I think the flop call MIGHT (might, I'm not an expert) be a touch fishy, but 18-1, I think you might have to. Once you pick up the draw on the turn and nobody but EP is showing anything, the 11-1 call there is good. Other than that initial flop call, I'd say nh.

[TheIceman05 0]

Glubglub? (j/k)I think the flop call MIGHT (might, I'm not an expert) be a touch fishy, but 18-1, I think you might have to. Once you pick up the draw on the turn and nobody but EP is showing anything, the 11-1 call there is good. Other than that initial flop call, I'd say nh.

Ultra-easy flop call. Getting decent odds to turn a set, and since he's got a strong back-door flush drizzle it becomes a no-brainer, foo! Add in the implied odds if he DOES make his set, and you're buring money by foldingIce

[akishore 0]

i figured my hand had about 2.5 outs on the flop. the backdoor flush draw was there, but it wasn't very strong since it was third nut, and if EP had an ace, he had a 1/3 chance of having the A for each ace in his hand. if he had a king in there (pocket kings, A-K, etc.), he also had another 1/4 chance of having the K for each king in his hand.so, i called the flop hoping to hit a set or improve to a flush draw. if an offsuit deuce or something similar had landed, i would have check-folded. even though the pot's huge, i think it's spewing chips to call this down with two other players in the hand. if i had K-K, i might call it down in a wa/wb line against Q-Q or J-J and whatnot (he seemed really aggressive), and the decision is closer with K-K, but with Q-Q, i think check-folding is alright on a blank turn.aseem

[TheIceman05 0]

so, i called the flop hoping to hit a set or improve to a flush draw. if an offsuit deuce or something similar had landed, i would have check-folded. even though the pot's huge, i think it's spewing chips to call this down with two other players in the hand.

That's what I was hoping to hear, and that means you played the hand like a limit champion. Aseem is the greatest pokah playah evah! Ice

[wontbez 0]

$1/2 limit he, absolute poker, six-handedpre-flop: akishore is BB with Q Q . EP posts to play.EP (poster) raises, EP calls.flop: A 4 2  (15 SB, 4 players)SB checks, akishore checks, EP bets.turn: 6  (9 BB, 4 players)SB checks, akishore checks, EP bets, MP folds, SB calls, akishore calls.river: Q  (12 BB, 3 players)SB checks, akishore checks (with the intention of raising a bet from EP), ...fishy, or okay?aseem

Flop play was bad, either lead out or check raise. Now you're in a position where you know nothing and are guessing weather he has an A or not.

[jayboogie 0]

you've gotta figure your behind on the flop and that somebody in the hand has an Ace at least, so putting more bets in to see where your at serves no purpose when you know your behind. Peeling 1 card to hit a set or pick up a draw is fine with the big pot and calling another bet on the turn with a flush draw is automatic, so I think it's pretty much a standard play.

[TheIceman05 0]

Flop play was bad, either lead out or check raise. Now you're in a position where you know nothing and are guessing weather he has an A or not.

What does raising and getting 3-bet accomplish? If you're ahead, you're gonna stay ahead and he'll keep firing.If you're behind, you're gonna stay behind unless you hit something runner-runner or make your set.Add a third player to the mix. What are you suggesting he do on the flop, again? This is what I like to call a Schroedinger's Cat situation. He both has an Ace and Doesn't Have An Ace. It doesn't matter. We'll open the box later and find out, and it really won't matter.Ice

[TheIceman05 0]

Hey.I just kinda had a stroke of inspiration.WA/WB, henceforth, can also be referred to as "Schroedinger's Cat." I'm sure the analogy is totally pretentious AND misplaced, but I think I'm the first to make it.Patent that shit. Y'all are witnesses! Just in case I hear Norman Chad make a bad joke. I'll be suin' bitches

[Kendren 1]

Hey.I just kinda had a stroke of inspiration.WA/WB, henceforth, can also be referred to as "Schroedinger's Cat."  I'm sure the analogy is totally pretentious AND misplaced, but I think I'm the first to make it.Patent that shit.  Y'all are witnesses!  Just in case I hear Norman Chad make a bad joke.  I'll be suin'  bitches

Alright, now you're just getting all existential on us. Please reread (or not) Heinlein's "The Cat That Walks Thorugh Walls". Thank you.

[Steppin Razor 0]

Looks good to me.

[Smasharoo 0]

Why wouldn't you bet this flop??

[DCWildcat 0]

Flop play was bad, either lead out or check raise. Now you're in a position where you know nothing and are guessing weather he has an A or not.

What would check-raising accomplish? Calling 2 cold still gives like 9.5 to 1, more than enough to call with almost any draw. It also opens us up to a 3-bet from any high ace (as anyone with a high ace should do right here). Why pay 3 bets rather than 1 when everyone's seeing the turn and we're often behind anyway?

[PrtyPSux 0]

what about betting out on the flop? u have the PF capper to your imediate right so if he raises he might scare off weaker hands that can still beat u ..i dont really know though..u prob played it right.

[TheIceman05 0]

what about betting out on the flop? u have the PF capper to your imediate right so if he raises he might scare off weaker hands that can still beat u ..i dont really know though..u prob played it right.

Like KK or that pesky 33 gutshot draw?

[PrtyPSux 0]

what about betting out on the flop? u have the PF capper to your imediate right so if he raises he might scare off weaker hands that can still beat u ..i dont really know though..u prob played it right.

Like KK or that pesky 33 gutshot draw?

or a loose player w/ a k j or any onter pkt pr..

[DCWildcat 0]

This is one of those hands that I can recognize the beauty of when I read it, but it's not something I'd ever be smart enough to think of on my own.

[TheIceman05 0]

what about betting out on the flop? u have the PF capper to your imediate right so if he raises he might scare off weaker hands that can still beat u ..i dont really know though..u prob played it right.

Like KK or that pesky 33 gutshot draw?

or a loose player w/ a k j or any onter pkt pr..

You're willing to put in extra bets to protect against naked king draws in the unlikely event that:1) You're actually ahead right now2) You won't get outdrawn in the normal course of things even if you somehow manage to sneak in a quintuple bet(shrug) Maybe. I'm more worried about catching up to the hands that already are slaughtering us than the ones that COULD make an unlikely comeback. But I might be right. I'd rather save a small bet here than hope for the above parlay.ice

[wontbez 0]

Flop play was bad, either lead out or check raise. Now you're in a position where you know nothing and are guessing weather he has an A or not.

What does raising and getting 3-bet accomplish? If you're ahead, you're gonna stay ahead and he'll keep firing.If you're behind, you're gonna stay behind unless you hit something runner-runner or make your set.Add a third player to the mix. What are you suggesting he do on the flop, again? This is what I like to call a Schroedinger's Cat situation. He both has an Ace and Doesn't Have An Ace. It doesn't matter. We'll open the box later and find out, and it really won't matter.Ice

If you get 3 bet you can simply place your QQ in the muck as you're probably beat. Check raising with middle pair is usually a good play because you gain information about your oponents hand and can make a decision to continue or not, you have to be able to fold QQ when an A shows up if you think he's got the A, you don't want to become a calling station, it worked out for him this time, but it's about making right decisions not results.

[wontbez 0]

Flop play was bad, either lead out or check raise. Now you're in a position where you know nothing and are guessing weather he has an A or not.

What would check-raising accomplish? Calling 2 cold still gives like 9.5 to 1, more than enough to call with almost any draw. It also opens us up to a 3-bet from any high ace (as anyone with a high ace should do right here). Why pay 3 bets rather than 1 when everyone's seeing the turn and we're often behind anyway?

Gaining information!! Calling gets you nothing, betting and raising gets you tons. If you know your playing for 2 outs, you simply muck your QQ.

[PrtyPSux 0]

If you get 3 bet you can simply place your QQ in the muck as you're probably beat. Check raising with middle pair is usually a good play because you gain information about your oponents hand and can make a decision to continue or not, you have to be able to fold QQ when an A shows up if you think he's got the A, you don't want to become a calling station, it worked out for him this time, but it's about making right decisions not results.

I think out of all of the plays, C/R would be the worst...maybe if he was button and you were SB..other wise you are just building a bigger pot. You might do this if u flop a boat or a set w/ no draws on board.IMO.

[DCWildcat 0]

Your advice would be good if this pot weren't so massive. The problem with the check-raise you're advocating is that we don't need the information. The flop bettor could flip his cards up and it'd be profitable for us to continue calling to the river because of the odds we're getting, barring exterme occurances. With 4 players to capped flop and a bet in front of us, there's VERY little chance we're ahead on this flop. So what do we gain by raising? We get information which we don't need since it probably won't change our play anyway. Thus we spew by raising this (calling here costs 1.5 BB to the river, c/r w/out a 3-bet is 2, and c/r w/ a 3-bet is 2.5 BB).

[wontbez 0]

If you get 3 bet you can simply place your QQ in the muck as you're probably beat. Check raising with middle pair is usually a good play because you gain information about your oponents hand and can make a decision to continue or not, you have to be able to fold QQ when an A shows up if you think he's got the A, you don't want to become a calling station, it worked out for him this time, but it's about making right decisions not results.

I think out of all of the plays, C/R would be the worst...maybe if he was button and you were SB..other wise you are just building a bigger pot. You might do this if u flop a boat or a set w/ no draws on board.IMO.

Calling is always the worst play!! What have you gained? You don't get the information you need to decided if your beat or not. I agree leading out and betting on this flop would be a better play but a check raise is a close seccond. Don't call with a hand if you think your beat, don't fold until you know your beat, and fold when your beat with poor odds, I believe 2 outs is 23 to 1.

[TheIceman05 0]

If you get 3 bet you can simply place your QQ in the muck as you're probably beat.

.....Are... is... what... who?? Are... what? WHAT??You're killing me smalls. With a pot this massive, that we've swolen by tossing tons of extra bets in there, we're totally getting the odds to draw at our 2-outer. + Backdoor flush draw.Add in the implied odds, and folding this flop IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE for just a single bet, and even worse in the situation you describe.You've got a some very basic concepts that you need to learn.Ice