18 replies to this topic

[Actuary]

too passive?I was falling into that trap of getting tired of multiway pots drawing out on me.My thoughts at the time...No way to protect on flop, I figured...and by turn it's heads up. At which point I figure "wa/wb". SB flop c/r concerned me.Not betting river because I welcome the free showdown. Weak..or fine?Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Actuary is MP3 with [Jc], [Js]. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.Flop: (11 SB) [2c], [3h], [3s] (5 players)SB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Actuary calls.Turn: (9.50 BB) [3d] (4 players)SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Actuary calls.River: (11.50 BB) [Qs] (2 players)SB checks, Actuary checks.Final Pot: 11.50 BB

[popeye18]

This is pretty bad IMO. YOu have to raise this flop. You want to get out as many people as you can and take control. The way u played it raise the turn and bet the river.

[RISEorFall]

No, you raise this flop because you like money. A ton of worse hands are calling you on this flop.

[Actuary]

ok..tons of worse hands are playing too..so raising the flop is +EV.But, only one of them has to have a 3, or higher pair.And I'm practically drawing dead.Rise: what do you do on the turn given the c/r by SB ? Still raise/call/3-bet...?? or if I raise the flop..does it play differently so it's impossible to advise beyond that?Back to my first comment.I'm still reading sshe..and I don't know much...but from limited experience, I'm likely killing most players in this hand..except for those that raise or would call my raises.. So I tend to play for cheaper showdowns when I have no re-draws. This sucks huh?

[RISEorFall]

I doubt anyone has a higher pair. QQ KK and AA would've reraised you PF. This is actually a great flop for you. Unless someone has a 3 which, even though everyone and their cousin decided to call, is unlikely - or pocket 2's, you're way ahead. the SB's check/raise could be a lot of things. It could be a 3, a bigger pocket pair (but probably not bigger than your pair), or even A high or a 2, or hell even a straight draw with like 4-5 or something. The odds of him having a 3 after the turn are very small, and you almost always have the best hand here. Even if you played the hand the way you did, his check on the river should've told you your hand was good, unless he was trying to be a sneaky little bastard with a 3 or a donkey with a Q. I'd put in about as many bets as I could here, barring him capping the flop and and the turn.

[Actuary]

yeah..I really do a poor job of replaying the whole hand. Like recalling that he did not re-raise the pre-flop raise, eliminates higher PP's (almost always) ...but my sphinxter tightens up when there's a pair on board and it's check raised...I'm sure sshe will straighten me up...gotta read faster.I need to really study texture better and deduction of opponents possible hands as well.thanks for your commentary on this. You are quite helpful.Please don't play at my tables. :-) btw. Good analysis..he had 77.Wonder if he woulda called the river bet. Likely. Perhaps he was concerned about a river raise and wanted a cheap showdown since I had not gone away, and did raise PF...or he put me on AK, and figured me bluffing was possible

[Steppin Razor]

Raise the flop and turn. Most people will incorrectly slow play trips on the flop, so his raise leans me toward two pair. Now for the part where you do as I say, not as I do: Never be afraid of Quads. That three on the turn was your best card. As shown above, he couldn't have a pocket pair higher than yours. That 3 is better than hitting your Js because now he's going to hold onto a full house, but two pair he might let go.

[ek703]

I think Doyle once said if you are ever afraid of quads you should quit playing poker. I think the flop play was the decisively weak spot in the hand. If you raise the intitial bet you are helping yourself in a number of ways: 1. building a bigger pot because to me it seems you have the best hand here a lot of the time, 2. eliminating a player or so, 3. gaining information on where the original bettor is at. I think the fact that sb c/r the flop shows that he does not have a 3. If he had the 3 he would not want to eliminate all of those players behind him when the bet value will double on the turn. I know at times in limit it can seem right to play for the cheap showdown, but this is where the major seperation occurs between players who win some sessions and players who win most sessions. Don't miss bets it allows weaker hands free or reduced rate cards and this is what causes more problems for your Jacks, when that queen came on the river it could have been a nightmare had the sb not taken the initiative and c/r the flop and then bet the turn, would you have bet the turn if he hadn't?

[justblaze]

Steppin Razor said:

Raise the flop and turn.  Most people will incorrectly slow play trips on the flop, so his raise leans me toward two pair.  Now for the part where you do as I say, not as I do:  Never be afraid of Quads.  That three on the turn was your best card.  As shown above, he couldn't have a pocket pair higher than yours.  That 3 is better than hitting your Js because now he's going to hold onto a full house, but two pair he might let go.

No one at these limits will EVER check-raise that flop with a trey. I'd put him on a deuce, or 55/66 at best.

[Actuary]

Don't miss bets it allows weaker hands free or reduced rate cards and this is what causes more problems for your Jacks, when that queen came on the river it could have been a nightmare had the sb not taken the initiative and c/r the flop and then bet the turn, would you have bet the turn if he hadn't?perhaps that's rhetorical...But I'd liek to think I would...boy...you're right..sb did some work for me, perhaps cleaning out a Q.I was playing Bingo Poker..praying my hand would hold up instead of actively pushing my edge and/or protecting it.No wonder I've slipped back to just break even after 1000 hands....(that's embarrrassing). My brain knows better...its the silly bad beats that I can't shake and give me puss-idice.

[Smiff85]

Raise the flop.Raise the turn.BET THE RIVER.

[DKE_XP120]

Raise the flop, raise the turn, bet the river....

[Steppin Razor]

justblaze said:

No one at these limits will EVER check-raise that flop with a trey. I'd put him on a deuce, or 55/66 at best.

Where do you play? I run across slow played trips all the time. And I didn't mean a check raise on the flop, most times these schmoes will wait until the turn to get their bets in.Yeah, I would put him on a low/middle pair at best too.

[CobaltBlue]

Steppin Razor said:

justblaze said:

No one at these limits will EVER check-raise that flop with a trey. I'd put him on a deuce, or 55/66 at best.

Where do you play? I run across slow played trips all the time.

You'll notice that blaze said that they would slowplay...slowplay implies not check-raising the flop.

[Steppin Razor]

CobaltBlue said:

You'll notice that blaze said that they would slowplay...slowplay implies not check-raising the flop.

Actually, you'll notice that blaze quoted me, where I said they would slow play . We're on the same page re: what slow playing means.

[econ_tim]

I don't like this line at all. Think of the range of hands your opponent could have. How many of them do you beat?

[Actuary]

Conclusion:Yes..way too passive.Not even close.Knew it..hence the titleJust needed it pounded again[/i]Moratorium on this post.( the KK vs 3 Hearts and an Ace is still open )

[thebolb33]

Amen. Bets are good we like them. We try to get as many as possible. Check/Calling with what really really looks to be best is way you aren't make money. Get the bets while you can.

[justblaze]

Steppin Razor said:

CobaltBlue said:

You'll notice that blaze said that they would slowplay...slowplay implies not check-raising the flop.

Actually, you'll notice that blaze quoted me, where I said they would slow play . We're on the same page re: what slow playing means.

i was just bolding your quote to hi-light it, i agree with you 100%. All im saying is a checkraise there usually means they definitely DONT have a the trips.