quick little quiz! should be easy

[JaysonWeber 0]

Allright its 5 handed 5/10 you have K Q in BB and everyone limps you...Bet?Check?

[TheIceman05 0]

Holy crap. 5 handed, I raise everytime. ESPECIALLY five handed. The range of hands people have here is superwide. People tend to raise significantly weaker hands 5 handed, and the buttom limp screams of weakness.Raise it up. You might have two people dominated. YOUR hand is easy to play, too. Ace-rag is gonna be struggling, but when you flop top pair, it's most always good.ICe

[TheIceman05 0]

Nevermind. Fold from the BB because KQ is "a trap hand" and you're too smart to get tricked into losing all that money post-flop. Folding when you're getting 5-0 (infinity) on your money in the BB is now known as a WebFizzle.Ice

[JaysonWeber 0]

A WebFizzle? Is that.. named.. after.. me..? :oops: So what is your real answer. :think:

[TheIceman05 0]

A WebFizzle? Is that.. named.. after.. me..? :oops: So what is your real answer. :think:

Yes, it was named after you, but not really because I don't hate you like I hate our Farrelltastic friends that usually get terrible moves named after them.My real answer is the first one I postedIce

[BeanGW 0]

Any reason why we wouldn't raise here? I can't think of any myself. Even in lousy position you gotta figure our equity edge is pretty decent in a shorthanded game full of limpers. Definitely seems to be worth getting an extra bet in there.

[justblaze 0]

Any reason why we wouldn't raise here? I can't think of any myself. Even in lousy position you gotta figure our equity edge is pretty decent in a shorthanded game full of limpers. Definitely seems to be worth getting an extra bet in there.

add in the fold equity, and the future value of disguising our big blind raises, and its a no brainer.

[Vade 0]

Any reason why we wouldn't raise here? I can't think of any myself. Even in lousy position you gotta figure our equity edge is pretty decent in a shorthanded game full of limpers. Definitely seems to be worth getting an extra bet in there.

At a full table I'd maybe check depending on the table but 5 handed is an easy raise.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Seems like a clear raise/call to me. Only person I would be worried about is UTG right now. :wink:

[mk 11]

I'd like raising if we were soooted. No one is folding here pf and you're building a big pot out of position. I'm not thrilled with the play, but don't mind it.

[justblaze 0]

I'd like raising if we were soooted. No one is folding here pf and you're building a big pot out of position. I'm not thrilled with the play, but don't mind it.

equity edge. you dont think you have an equity edge here?

[mk 11]

I'd like raising if we were soooted. No one is folding here pf and you're building a big pot out of position. I'm not thrilled with the play, but don't mind it.

equity edge. you dont think you have an equity edge here?

small, if any. Ax, small pp is right with you.

[justblaze 0]

I'd like raising if we were soooted. No one is folding here pf and you're building a big pot out of position. I'm not thrilled with the play, but don't mind it.

equity edge. you dont think you have an equity edge here?

small, if any. Ax, small pp is right with you.

Kx clobbered, Qx clobbered, unless table is extremely passive you're not dominated by anyone. i think more likely you've got UTG on small pp, or suited connector, and most after that limping 'because its cheap'.

[BeanGW 0]

Kx clobbered, Qx clobbered, unless table is extremely passive you're not dominated by anyone. i think more likely you've got UTG on small pp, or suited connector, and most after that limping 'because its cheap'.

I would substitute tight for passive there. If the table is just extremely passive you are still in very good shape.

[mk 11]

Kx clobbered, Qx clobbered, unless table is extremely passive you're not dominated by anyone. i think more likely you've got UTG on small pp, or suited connector, and most after that limping 'because its cheap'.Yes, but that's the problem with a multi-way pot. You really don't have anyone clobbered. Even if you dominate 1 of your opponents, Ax has an edge. The only way you have a significant edge is if you dominate 1, and other 3 have random non-ace, non-paired hands.

[akishore 0]

i've been working on a post for a couple of days, comparing different experts' takes on big, offsuit hands in loose, multiway pots. specifically, i'm looking at whether those hands should be raised out of the big blind. expect it to be up sometime today or tomorrow.it was always normal for me to raise here, but i don't mind questioning the norm and even changing my play from ed miller's recommendations if i find enough reason to do so.i think too many people on this forum (no names, no accusations, just a general complaint) take too much advice for granted and accept it "just because". we need to start questioning everything more and deciding for ourselves why something is correct, not just accepting it because some book or author or expert poster tells you so.if that were the case, you wouldn't have so many conflicting viewpoints on such a wide array of poker theory topics, including this one, including defending/stealing blinds with low pairs or not, including playing suited connectors in early position or not, including raising JTs in MP3 or not, etc.what i'm also kind of sick of is how a lot of things are just taken as "standard". why is it standard? if i do something different, i'm automatically flamed for it. since when are we all on the same plane of poker knowledge, anyway, that we all know what's standard and what's not?i put up those four "akishore hands" to demonstrate something. a lot of people automatically assume things to be correct, and when a different viewpoint is brought up, it turns into a big controversy. i think i'm going to revive those and write up a little conclusion.sorry for the rant. return to your regular programming.aseem

[mk 11]

nice post aseem.

[KDawgCometh 2]

here's a question for those who advocate raising.why would I want to bloat the pot OOP for FE that won't exist post flop.You won't be able to get the entire field to fold just becasue you raised PF from teh BB. with this many people in the pot, I can almost garuntee you that a showdown will be seen. Plus, if we hit a good flop then we will have much more equity when it matters then we do with our hand PreFlop

[TheIceman05 0]

here's a question for those who advocate raising.why would I want to bloat the pot OOP for FE that won't exist post flop.You won't be able to get the entire field to fold just becasue you raised PF from teh BB. with this many people in the pot, I can almost garuntee you that a showdown will be seen. Plus, if we hit a good flop then we will have much more equity when it matters then we do with our hand PreFlop

I think we will have significantly more visibility with our hand postflop than any other player. Ace-rag can hardly punish the field. Same with medium pocket pairs. I'm building a pot because if I have top-pair on the turn, I'm going to win a big pot. If I don't have a pair or draw by then, I'll toss it. Easy peasey. No big deal. But Ace rag is pretty much the ONLY hand I'm worried about. If a K or Q comes off, I might get to put in a raise on the turn and slaughter QJ or K6sIce

[checkymcfold 0]

just so we're clear, we ARE raising here, no? (iceman in the post above puts it quite nicely, methinks.)

[H8it4ya 0]

Is a check preflop and a check raise on the flo0p( assuming we hit) a bad idea???

[KDawgCometh 2]

just so we're clear, we ARE raising here, no? (iceman in the post above puts it quite nicely, methinks.)

the answer is no. We do have PF equity, but will have even greater post flop equity if we hit. Making a bloated pot PF is a bad idea as we will commit more money to the hand when we miss is just a bad idea. Iceman's description basically commits 2.5BBs for the times we miss, and even when we do hit, we will also have to deal with the times that we are still behind with TP2k. THe answer is to check and work from teh flop. I don't want to go through all of the pokerstove shit, but our equity won't be high enough to justify a raise PF. We don't lose much by not raising here PF

[CobaltBlue 662]

Suited, I'd raise. Unsuited, I check.

[mk 11]

I don't want to go through all of the pokerstove shit, but our equity won't be high enough to justify a raise PF. We don't lose much by not raising here PFi already did it. that's why i made the argument you are making.

[screech 0]

Why should you raise here?Sure, preflop your hand probably has better than 20% equity, but not by much. All you are doing by raising is bloating a pot out of position to exploit a very small edge. That edge is going to change drastically once the flop comes. Even if you flop TP, by bloating the pot PF, most of your four remaining opponents will have the correct odds to draw out against you. Your problems are compounded further if you consider all your opponents to be good players.