excerpt from "gsih", no limit hold 'em
Started by akishore, Jul 05 2005 04:40 PM
13 replies to this topic
#1
Posted 05 July 2005 - 04:40 PM
(cross-posted in general)----Understanding Stack SizeNo limit hold 'em is actually two very different games. The first one is complex, full of loose preflop play, trapping, daring bluffs, and other chicanery. The second one is surprisingly simple, significantly more so than limit hold 'em, and it requires only that you play tightly and bet your good hands.When you buy into a no limit game, you choose which one you want to play. Buy a lot of chips, and you will be playing the complicated game. Buy the minimum, and you will need only a simple strategy to win. Much as the size of the pot often determines your correct strategy in limit hold 'em, the size of your stack dictates your best strategy at no limit.Big Stacks, Small StacksStack sizes are measured as a multiple of the big blind. Roughly speaking, 25 times the big blind or less is a small stack. Between 25 and 100 times it is a medium stack. More than 100 times it is a big stack. So $100 would be a small stack if you were playing a $2-$5 blind no limit game, but a medium stack in a $1-$2 blind game, and a big stack at $0.25$0.50 blinds.A small stack will usually be enough to make bets preflop and on the flop only, so it will leave you all-in on the turn and river. A medium stack will leave enough for a turn bet, but leave you all-in for the river. A big stack is enough for bets on all streets. This is the fundamental reason for the different strategies: Small stack no limit hold 'em is a game of only two betting rounds, while big stack no limit hold 'em has four rounds.For example, you are playing $2-$5 no limit and have a small $100 stack. Everyone else at the table "has you covered" (has a bigger stack than you do, so no one will be all-in before you are). Two players limp, and you raise to $25 on the button with Q
Q
(a standard-sized raise, as we will see later). The blinds fold, and both the limpers call. You have $75 left, and the pot contains $82 ($25 from each of the players and $7 in blinds). The flop is J
8
3
. Your opponents check, and you bet your remaining $75, a reasonable bet slightly smaller than the pot. One player calls. Since you are all-in, you turn your hands over. Your opponent has A
J
. The turn is the 6
, and the river is the 2
. Your queens hold up.Now suppose you are playing $0.25-$0.50 no limit and have a big $100 stack. Everyone else at the table has you covered. Two players limp, and you raise to $2.50 on the button with Q
Q
(again a standard-sized raise, given the blinds). The blinds fold, and the two limpers both call. You have $97.50 left, and the pot contains $8.25. The flop is again J
8
3
. Your opponents check, and you bet $8. One player calls. The pot now contains $24.25, and you have $89.50 left. The turn is the 6
, a harmless-looking card. Your opponent checks, and you bet $15. She calls. The pot now contains $54.25, and you have $74.50 left. The river is the 2
, making a spade flush possible. Your opponent moves all-in.You have a genuinely difficult decision. What was your opponent calling with? She certainly could have been drawing at the flush. But she could also have ace-jack as she did in the first hand, or she could have been drawing at a straight with ten-nine. She could also have any number of other less-obvious holdings. The pot on the turn was $54.25, and your opponent bets $74.50, so you will win $128.75 if you call correctly. But if your opponent has the flush or another hand that beats you, you will lose $74.50.Against an unknown opponent, you should probably fold (reluctantly). But either way, if you were playing a small stack, you wouldn't have this problem. You would have been all-in on the flop, and the power of your strong starting hand would have carried you through. The extra money in your stack was a liability this hand, as it left you vulnerable to a well-timed bluff.Of course, having a big stack will not alwayus be a liability. Sometiems you find yourself in the position your opponent did this time, able to win an extra pot with a bluff, and having the extra money will be to your advantage. But on average, big stacks tend to generate tricky decisions and therefore benefit those who consistently make superior plays in tough spots--the best players at the table.If you are not the best player at the table (or perhaps the second-best), you are typically much better off playing a small stack.----"Getting Started in Hold 'em"Ed Miller2+2 Publishinghttp://www.amazon.co...=books&n=507846----aseem
After a long hiatus, my poker blog is back!
#2
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:01 PM
no one cares, or thought this was an ingenious section?i might have expected this in general, but in strategy?come on guys, let's get some discussion going.aseem
After a long hiatus, my poker blog is back!
#3
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:11 PM
thanks heaps for sharing this helps me out a lot
#4
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:17 PM
akishore said:
The extra money in your stack was a liability this hand, as it left you vulnerable to a well-timed bluff.
#5
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:21 PM
This concept makes sense to me, i always seemed to get myself in trouble when buying in for the max, and now i know why. I'm not as good as i think i am....
. Thanks for bursting my bubble akishore.I usually didnt consider stack size when playing in a NL cash game, but this does make sense. From this excerpt, i am led to beleive that a tight player who usually goes in with the best hand should buy in with a small stack. And that an aggressive player should go in with a monster stack and play his game.
#6
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:22 PM
econ_tim said:
akishore said:
The extra money in your stack was a liability this hand, as it left you vulnerable to a well-timed bluff.
#7
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:28 PM
econ_tim said:
akishore said:
The extra money in your stack was a liability this hand, as it left you vulnerable to a well-timed bluff.
#8
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:38 PM
econ_tim said:
In economic theory, giving someone more choices can never make someone worse off. The above statement seems to violate this principle, but does not. Discuss.
#9
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:41 PM
It's worthwhile material. Just hope Ed Miller never sees that post. Chances are he won't be happy, and neither will 2+2's lawyers.
#10
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:48 PM
HtotheNootch said:
It's worthwhile material. Just hope Ed Miller never sees that post. Chances are he won't be happy, and neither will 2+2's lawyers.
#11
Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:50 PM
HtotheNootch said:
It's worthwhile material. Just hope Ed Miller never sees that post. Chances are he won't be happy, and neither will 2+2's lawyers.
#12
Posted 06 July 2005 - 12:51 PM
I'm not sure that the example really supports this strategy at all. I'm not too good with this type of math, so bare with me, and please point out errors.Edit: ooops terrible math by me.BUT, even if you could make more money using this strategy, I still think it's not the best idea. Most players at low limit tables are either a) playing for recreation and don't care about the money or B) looking to improve their game while making money so that they can eventually move up in limits. This strategy doesn't improve your game, it takes turn and river play out of the equation so that tough decisions are avoided. So why would you want to use it? I suppose in the rare situation that you are playing these games as your sole income it would make sense, but the majority of players should avoid it.Just my 2 cents.Edit: I realize that I have assumed that this strategy is for low limits. Even if it works at higher limits, though, I still think it should be avoided. Most players like to play tournaments too, what're you gonna do when you have a big stack on the turn and river? I just don't see how avoiding the hard decisions will be beneficial in the long-run, and I doubt playing that way is nearly as fun.
#13
Posted 06 July 2005 - 01:25 PM
Through my occasional posts in strategy, it should be apparent that I'm working pretty hard on my NL game. When I hit 21, I want to be one of those mad-skilled guys that buy in for the max at the NL tables in casinos and runs a clinic. That's exactly why I don't treat $25NL online as just a way to make easy money--I want to improve my postflop play.I have trouble understanding why somebody would play the short stack strategy. If the game is too tough, just don't buy in. Everybody is a fish out of water on later streets, it seems... why not improve and dominate where they fail?
#14
Posted 06 July 2005 - 01:31 PM
It's worthwhile material. Just hope Ed Miller never sees that post. Chances are he won't be happy, and neither will 2+2's lawyers.It's called "fair use".It's not copyright infringment.
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