32 replies to this topic

[happyjuggler0]

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=2097513Tournament directors faced with a new situationLAS VEGAS - Two black souvenir poker chips that are nearly indistinguishable when stacked with actual $100 chips being used in the World Series of Poker were discovered in play during an official event Tuesday, raising concerns among tournament organizers of a new form of cheating.The souvenir chips, which could be purchased at the gift shop outside the Rio's poker hall, are emblazoned with the World Series of Poker logo in the center. The real tournament chips have a red "$100" stamped in the middle. But from the side, both kinds of chips contain similar alternating black-and-white sections.Jody Ivener, an assistant tournament supervisor, was alerted to the existence of one of the phony chips during the $2,000 buy-in No Limit Hold'em event Tuesday afternoon."My immediate response was to take the chip out of play and replace it with a regular chip," Ivener said. "I couldn't penalize the player. We don't know if he brought it in or if it was part of the set-up (when officials lay out the appropriate stack for each player at the start of an event). We don't know when it came in, so I couldn't take the chip out of play without giving him back $100 in equity somehow. So, I gave him back one of the correct chips."I guess I have to thank the Lord it's not a purple chip -- a $500 chip -- or a yellow chip -- a $1,000 chip. Thank God it's only a $100 chip."Another phony $100 chip was discovered in play during the day, said Jack Effel, assistant tournament director. It also was replaced with an official tournament chip.In an unfortunate collision of poker's modern-day marketing meeting its outlaw past, tournament officials voiced worry that players have a stash of the phony chips that they plan to use in future events, including the prestigious $10,000 buy-in No Limit Hold'em championship that is expected to draw up to 6,600 participants.To combat that, Effel said, players who hold phony chips will not have them replaced. Additionally, Effel said anyone caught purposely trying to slip them into play will be immediately disqualified."They're going to lose their buy-ins and be 86'd from the event," Effel said.Effel said WSOP dealers and people manning security cameras lining the ceiling of the poker hall have been told to be aware of phony chips entering play."We're going to have surveillance take a look at them," Effel said. "We're going to watch those people."We've educated the dealers. We've told them to make sure the black chips are spread (to reveal the distinctive red '$100' printed on the actual chips)."Poker pro Andy Bloch believes there is a solution to the problem. "One of my pet peeves is they should have computer chips in their chips so they could track them," Bloch said of an idea that has been kicked around, but apparently is too expensive for casinos that stock millions of chips.Rio poker officials planned to make an announcement to players that phony chips have been discovered and that it will be the responsibility of the players, as well as dealers and WSOP organizers, to make sure they are using official chips, Effel said.No announcement to players had been made as of Wednesday evening."We had four events today: A 12 o'clock event, a 2 o'clock event, a 3 o'clock restart and a 2 o'clock final table," Effel said of the head-spinning day for players and officials alike. "It just kind of slipped by us."Meanwhile, a basket next to a register in the gift shop Wednesday afternoon was filled with black chips going for 49 cents apiece."I haven't addressed it with (gift shop managers)," Effel said. "I don't know if they want to take them off sale."Players dismissed the advantage a participant would have from slipping phony $100 chips into play."Whoever tries that is stupid, because they'll never be able to play in any World Series events," poker pro Joe Awada said. "What are a couple of chips going to do for you? They're not going to take you to the final table. You have a lot to lose and nothing to gain."Player awareness and additional scrutiny on the part of tournament officials, dealers and security personnel should be enough to quash the issue, Effel believes."If somebody has the (guts) to try to do it and they want to take a shot at losing their money and they want to get disqualified from every event at the World Series and never be able to play again, well, let them take that chance," Effel said. "Everybody's going to be watching out for them now."

[Geezy]

I tried to play with a chocalte coin as a chip once... the dealer just looked at me and said smooth but not rich...

[otnemem]

Geezy said:

I tried to play with a chocalte coin as a chip once... the dealer just looked at me and said smooth but not rich...

That's so weird because I'm a millionaire, and this one time I thought I was playing blackjack and I was dealt an ace and a face and I yelled, "21! Blackjack, baby!" The dealer just looked at me and said, "Congratulations, but we're playing poker." Then the floor manager or someone said, "Rich, but not smooth." I resented that.

[PMJackson21]

happyjuggler0 said:

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=2097513Tournament directors faced with a new situationLAS VEGAS - Two black souvenir poker chips that are nearly indistinguishable when stacked with actual $100 chips being used in the World Series of Poker were discovered in play during an official event Tuesday, raising concerns among tournament organizers of a new form of cheating.

Haha..that's classic. A 'new' form of cheating. Yeah, people have never smuggled illegal/fake chips into a tournament before. LOL...Patrick

[Socrates]

I brought this up in the first minute of Event #2. 3 people had them at my table and were using them as card protectors. While I knew what they were, I knew it would at least lead to confusion. One guy who went all in, did actually take that chip and tried to count it (obviously unintentional), but becasue it had been discussed several times already, everyone jumped on it. If no one knew, it would have gone in, the dealer didn't notice.Here's the kicker, since the cashier refuses to make change for anyone and the store won't either, they make people buy something. Guess what people buy most? The chips, the cheapest thing in the store.Ah, the karma - greedy bastards.

[happyjuggler0]

Socrates said:

I brought this up in the first minute of Event #2. 3 people had them at my table and were using them as card protectors. While I knew what they were, I knew it would at least lead to confusion. One guy who went all in, did actually take that chip and tried to count it (obviously unintentional), but becasue it had been discussed several times already, everyone jumped on it. If no one knew, it would have gone in, the dealer didn't notice.Here's the kicker, since the cashier refuses to make change for anyone and the store won't either, they make people buy something. Guess what people buy most? The chips, the cheapest thing in the store.Ah, the karma - greedy bastards.

Hmmmmm. Perhaps it wasn't even cheating then that was the cause of the illegal chips in circulation. Just someone who wasn't thinking who used one as a card protector who went all in.

[Socrates]

I think I'd have to agree here. While you will find a lot of times people who go in forget their chip on their cards, there are those who look for every chip in front of them. Couple that with nervousness of a new player and in it goes.

[Smasharoo]

Hmmmmm. Perhaps it wasn't even cheating then that was the cause of the illegal chips in circulation. Just someone who wasn't thinking who used one as a card protector who went all in.Riiiiiight.I'm shocked that anyone would cheat at the WSOP. Shocked, I say.

[PMJackson21]

Smasharoo said:

Hmmmmm. Perhaps it wasn't even cheating then that was the cause of the illegal chips in circulation. Just someone who wasn't thinking who used one as a card protector who went all in.Riiiiiight.I'm shocked that anyone would cheat at the WSOP. Shocked, I say.

LOL, exactly. Who would have thought that poker players would stoop to that level? It's not so different from people that sneak chips from lower buy-in tournaments into the higher ones. Patrick

[econ_tim]

I've got to get some of those souvenir chips. I wonder if there are discounts for buying by the case. Don't be surpised when I make a dramatic comeback at next year's final event.

[SapphireTiger]

i have a stack of 25 of those souviner chips...They are 11.5g, but they are the ones with the metal disc inside. So they're okay and all...but aren't the real thing.

[happyjuggler0]

Smasharoo said:

Hmmmmm. Perhaps it wasn't even cheating then that was the cause of the illegal chips in circulation. Just someone who wasn't thinking who used one as a card protector who went all in.Riiiiiight.I'm shocked that anyone would cheat at the WSOP. Shocked, I say.

I didn't say it wasn't cheating, just that it may have been an innocent mistake by someone.As the article points out it is pretty stupid to sneak a chip onto a table, the risk/reward ratio for that is horrible. But that said, nowhere is it written that crooks had to be smart....Personally I think a more likely method of cheating would be to be in an event and be doing poorly. Grab some of your chips from your stack when everyone looks over at the commotion somewhere else, and then sneak them back on in another event. No need for counterfeits at all. Still a risky thing to do, but I would be shocked if it doesn't happen. I wonder if they count the chips at the end of a tourney to see how often, and to what extreme, this happens.

[kfernandez]

It probably was someone's card protector that accidentally made its way to the pot. I highly doubt that a chip like that would find its way to the official chips.

[PMJackson21]

kfernandez said:

It probably was someone's card protector that accidentally made its way to the pot. I highly doubt that a chip like that would find its way to the official chips.

They aren't saying it was part of someone's original chip count. They are specualting that someone smuggled it into play. If you don't think things like this happen in tournaments, then you are naive (no offense). Chip smuggling has been going on for years.Patrick

[gobears]

If you have read the chapter on Men Nguyen in Aces & Kings - there's some stuff in there allegedly about how his teams have worked in the past to dump chips from the losing players to the winning players in tournaments.It was an interesting read that's for sure

[KingAustin]

Atleast the cheaters are chip spewers..

[happyjuggler0]

gobears said:

If you have read the chapter on Men Nguyen in Aces & Kings - there's some stuff in there allegedly about how his teams have worked in the past to dump chips from the losing players to the winning players in tournaments.It was an interesting read that's for sure

Similar such stuff regarding Men and his "team" was covered in rgp a long time ago (years). As it happens DN was one of the big names who had the guts/decency to point this out to hopefully end the practice.

[Socrates]

PMJackson21 said:

kfernandez said:

It probably was someone's card protector that accidentally made its way to the pot. I highly doubt that a chip like that would find its way to the official chips.

They aren't saying it was part of someone's original chip count. They are specualting that someone smuggled it into play. If you don't think things like this happen in tournaments, then you are naive (no offense). Chip smuggling has been going on for years.Patrick

While I wouldn't doubt that it would happen (attmepts at cheating)See my previous message about watching it happen unintentionally. Everyone was walking around with thtese damn things for the reasons I posted above. I knew this would happen eventually.