$25nl aks 2 pair on the turn

[strategy 4]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converterCO ($22.15)Button ($34.25)SB ($21.8)BB ($48.95)UTG ($0)Hero ($30.95)UTG+2 ($22.9)MP1 ($22)MP2 ($24.75)MP3 ($31.65)Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with [As], [Ks]. SB posts a blind of $0.1. Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds, BB calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25.Flop: ($2.60) [Kh], [7c], [4c] (6 players)BB checks, Hero bets $1, MP3 calls $1, CO calls $1, Button folds, BB folds.Turn: ($5.60) [Ah] (4 players)Hero bets $3, MP3 folds, Hero calls $5.65.Final Pot: $35.25It was one of those tables where one or two guys are inclined to raise pf with any two cards, hence no raise UTG with AKs.

[custom36 5]

Raise preflop and lead out strong on the flop. I would raise the preflop to 4xBB and bet (roughly) the size of the pot on the flop.Edit - Get rid of those results so you don't get results-oriented thinking.

[strategy 4]

Raise preflop and lead out strong on the flop.  I would raise the preflop to 4xBB and bet (roughly) the size of the pot on the flop.Edit - Get rid of those results so you don't get results-oriented thinking.

Thanks for the advice on the results stuff.Even on a table where pretty much every pot gets raised preflop, you suggest betting out UTG with AKs?

[custom36 5]

Raise preflop and lead out strong on the flop.  I would raise the preflop to 4xBB and bet (roughly) the size of the pot on the flop.Edit - Get rid of those results so you don't get results-oriented thinking.

Thanks for the advice on the results stuff.Even on a table where pretty much every pot gets raised preflop, you suggest betting out UTG with AKs? pretty much everybody had become accustomed to the raising. I was going for deception.

Get rid of what the CO had in your second post.If the table's used to calling bets with all kinds of wacky cards, then a raise here does even more. You'll get multiple callers and your implied odds will go through the roof (as opposed to only getting one caller). All a limp does here is allow even trashier cards in cheaply if nobody bets. Here, you pick what they pay and you control the action.

[BeanGW 0]

Oh lordy... if you don't raise preflop you absolutely hate money with a passion, and deserve to lose it. Also you need a nice $2-3 flop bet to see where things stand. You are going to lose your shirt on this hand, but maybe if you raised to 4x the BB preflop the dummy with 4-4 would have folded.

[strategy 4]

Oh lordy...  if you don't raise preflop you absolutely hate money with a passion, and deserve to lose it.  Also you need a nice $2-3 flop bet to see where things stand.  You are going to lose your shirt on this hand, but maybe if you raised to 4x the BB preflop the dummy with 4-4 would have folded.

And on the turn? Opening up with AK when the board is scary like that? That was what I wanted to know about this hand.I think I can beat most of the hands that would call my raise.

[BeanGW 0]

And on the turn?  Opening up with AK when the board is scary like that?  That was what I wanted to know about this hand.I think I can beat most of the hands that would call my raise.

Dude... How is this board scary to you? Flush draws? OK, so push em out, that's what NL is for man. You played the turn OK, although maybe I would have fired out a little more. You have to bet here, it's standard as fck with two flush draws. You may have asked about the turn, but that's not where you fcked up.Like I said you may have been destined to go broke here once that Ace hit. Not much you can do about a made set when you've got top two pair. But if you played the pf and flop better you may have avoided that situation altogether. That's the point. 8)

[strategy 4]

And on the turn?  Opening up with AK when the board is scary like that?  That was what I wanted to know about this hand.I think I can beat most of the hands that would call my raise.

Dude... How is this board scary to you? Flush draws? OK, so push em out, that's what NL is for man. You played the turn OK, although maybe I would have fired out a little more. You have to bet here, it's standard as fck with two flush draws. You may have asked about the turn, but that's not where you fcked up.Like I said you may have been destined to go broke here once that Ace hit. Not much you can do about a made set when you've got top two pair. But if you played the pf and flop better you may have avoided that situation altogether. That's the point. 8)

Hmm. Sounds good to me.

[cbiscuit20 0]

And if you are going to limp UTG+1 when it gets back around to you put in a big re-raise.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Seriously...raise at least 3xBB pre-flop, then lead the flop with a 2/3-full pot bet.

[RhinestoneCowboy 2]

From my experience in $25NL, your not going to push a PP off a hand for 3-4x BB. Just as players chase their flush draws, people will call hoping for the set (which although you deleted the history it sounds like this guy did). IMO its one of those hands that you were sunk at the flop, not much you can do...

[bdams19 0]

^^^ Completely agree. The way 25 NL is (blinds .1/.25) is that the pots get so ridiculously large when compared to the blinds. People are going to call 2 dollars pf with 44, much less .75. When I used to play 25 NL I would min raise AA and then when I got a reraiser I would just push all in and get called by KJ or something.

[RISEorFall 0]

You are going to lose your shirt on this hand, but maybe if you raised to 4x the BB preflop the dummy with 4-4 would have folded.

How exactly is the guy with 44 a dummy? He got in cheap PF, hit a set, and got all his money in. If that's how a dummy plays 44...how does a good player play it?

[BeanGW 0]

You are going to lose your shirt on this hand, but maybe if you raised to 4x the BB preflop the dummy with 4-4 would have folded.

How exactly is the guy with 44 a dummy? He got in cheap PF, hit a set, and got all his money in. If that's how a dummy plays 44...how does a good player play it?

Sorry... i didn't mean dummy in the literal sense of the term. I meant it in terms of "that punk who beat you." Wrong word choice, my bad. So called "dummy" actually played it fine, because Hero let him.

[RISEorFall 0]

Sorry... i didn't mean dummy in the literal sense of the term. I meant it in terms of "that punk who beat you." Wrong word choice, my bad. So called "dummy" actually played it fine, because Hero let him.

That's what I figured U meant...i didnt mean to come off as so aggressive if I did. 2 fights with some idiots on this forum in the last couple days have me not in a very good mood....

[BeanGW 0]

Sorry... i didn't mean dummy in the literal sense of the term. I meant it in terms of "that punk who beat you." Wrong word choice, my bad. So called "dummy" actually played it fine, because Hero let him.

That's what I figured U meant...i didnt mean to come off as so aggressive if I did. 2 fights with some idiots on this forum in the last couple days have me not in a very good mood....

LOL, no worries. Compared to what I'm already used to seeing, your post was AOK. In fact, I think it was important to point out, so that FCP'ers don't think the villain played this hand improperly.

[strategy 4]

Sorry... i didn't mean dummy in the literal sense of the term. I meant it in terms of "that punk who beat you." Wrong word choice, my bad. So called "dummy" actually played it fine, because Hero let him.

In this particular hand, I let him draw to it for nothing. That's correct. But I will *most definitely* call a $2 raise preflop with 44 if we've both got deep stacks and I'm certain he's got a big pocket pair. That's a situation where I make a huge score if I hit my set. I will take way the worst of it going into the flop if the implied odds are through the roof as they usually are when the other guy has AA.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I don't see a problem with the limp UTG +1, but why no re-raise pre-flop when it gets back to you? :wink:

[CobaltBlue 662]

From my experience in $25NL, your not going to push a PP off a hand for 3-4x BB. Just as players chase their flush draws, people will call hoping for the set (which although you deleted the history it sounds like this guy did). IMO its one of those hands that you were sunk at the flop, not much you can do...

You'll notice that I said "at least 3x" in my post. Often at $50NL, I'll raise 4x-8x the BB with my premium hands. I think there's a cut-off when calling a big raise pre-flop with low pockets is dumb (particularly if there are players to act behind you).

[dms26 3]

Even on a table where pretty much every pot gets raised preflop, you suggest betting out UTG with AKs?

Yes, raise AKs please. Loose players will call $1 to see a flop just as wasily as they will pay .25. You could have gotten more into the pot preflop with a raise.

[strategy 4]

Yes, raise AKs please. Loose players will call $1 to see a flop just as wasily as they will pay .25. You could have gotten more into the pot preflop with a raise.

Well, okay, but only because you asked nicely.My beef with raising with AK is that the majority of the time I'm going to miss the flop and probably muck it. The times I get called by KQ and take a sizeable pot will obviously make up for it, but in bad position with AKs I'm less inclined to put in a raise. I'm going to reread Super/System's chapter on NLHE to find out what I'm doing wrong. My guess is A LOT.My main concern with big hands like AK, AA, and KK are that I'm going to overplay it. I trap people who slowplay AA with 26 and such and take huge pots, and I do my best to avoid BEING the dummy with AA.