brilliant play by hellmuth

[Frills 0]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/colum...d=2090975&num=4"And then Hellmuth moves all in for his $13,600 with 17 players left. Everyone folds. He has aces. "That's what I'm known for,'' Hellmuth says. "Getting all the money in when I have the best hand.'' "What a ****in moron, why push PF here, wouldn't you want someone to call? He just hasn't adjusted, and blames everyone else. Then this happens"Full Metal Hellmuth. Even before Hellmuth makes a pot-size raise preflop, Martz has his chips in the middle. Hellmuth moves all in with A-7-K-8, ace suited. Heimowitz, also short-stacked, also moves in. Martz calls with K-J-J-9, king suited. The board comes K-7-8-10-J. Martz takes the pot. Hellmuth is out. And out of his mind. "This (F-bomb) called a full raise with K-J-J-9,'' Hellmuth begins, and you can guess how the monologue went from there. It might've been a world indoor record for F-bombs. "Give him effing congratulations,'' Hellmuth virtually spits, and then kicks a chair to the next table. "Sure thats only 2 hands, but it shows his issues. He may make great reads, but thats only a part of the game.

[Absolute 0]

huh?the guy who has K J J 9 is an idiot. thats a pretty horrible call to a pot sized raise in front of you.also, do you know the blinds or the structure when he pushed with aces?because i am doubting the blinds were 25-50.if the table was good and the blinds were high enough, his push was probably good.hellmuth isn't just some crazy lucky LAG.he actually does know what he's doing.

[Frills 0]

then why not a 4-5x BB raise with the AA, turning a good hand into a blind steal, seems counterproductive.(I'm no Omaha expert)

[BeanGW 0]

then why not a 4-5x BB raise with the AA, turning a good hand into a blind steal, seems counterproductive.(I'm no Omaha expert)

Because it is unexpected. Because some amateurs would think "He just went all in... if he had a good hand he would have just raised 4-5x the BB. I think he is bluffing." And they'd still call with 10's, J's, K-Q, A-Q. A-K... etc.At higher stakes games, or when playing against other pro's it's good to mix up your style. I think that is what Phil did there.

[Absolute 0]

then why not a 4-5x BB raise with the AA, turning a good hand into a blind steal, seems counterproductive.(I'm no Omaha expert)

because it the blinds were 500-1000 or somethin (which I am guessing they were), there is a great range of hands that will call his all-in.

[otnemem 0]

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

[KingAustin 0]

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

I'm glad that's just your opinion, because no one else agrees. You have to mix up your play if you want to succeed.

[otnemem 0]

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

I'm glad that's just your opinion, because no one else agrees. You have to mix up your play if you want to succeed.

Hmm, three people. Yep, I'd say that's everyone. Nice sample, douche.

[KingAustin 0]

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

I'm glad that's just your opinion, because no one else agrees. You have to mix up your play if you want to succeed.

Hmm, three people. Yep, I'd say that's everyone. Nice sample, douche.

Ok, let me rephrase, no one else, but fish, will agree. We dont even know what the blinds are you stupid prick.

[Absolute 0]

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

if the blinds were the hypothetical 500-1000 and he got dealt AA, pushing is better than raising 3x, do you see why?

[Rocketwadster 0]

How can anyone even begin to doubt any play made by Hellmuth? All-in pre-flop with aces by Hellmuth - I'm folding every time. 9 bracelets fellas...NINE! :wink:

[otnemem 0]

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

I'm glad that's just your opinion, because no one else agrees. You have to mix up your play if you want to succeed.

Hmm, three people. Yep, I'd say that's everyone. Nice sample, douche.

Ok, let me rephrase, no one else, but fish, will agree. We dont even know what the blinds are you stupid prick.

But you see, in my post, I said with blinds at 500-1000, a push is not in order. I usually reserve open-pushing preflop to under 10X BB, which is what most people do, I think you'll find. You decided that in a STRATEGY section, instead of disputing my play with some kind of useful information or assessment of the situation, you'd just basically call me an a$shole. That's a great way to dispute poker strategy: slam anyone who disagrees with your so non-fish like strategy. Now fall on a knife.

[Absolute 0]

The "textbook" streategy for pushing PF in NL holdem is 10BB or less. But you have to get out of the kiddie pool.If you only have 13.5 BB left, and you get dealt aces, you should be without a doubt moving in.Why?Because decent to big stacks call with all these hands.ATs, AJ, AJs, AQ, AQs, AK, AKs, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77.then not to mention all the novice players who will think it is a coin flip and call with any pair.And not to mention the huge stacks who will call with any ace.not to mention all the idiots who will call with KQ.pushing here with aces is good because you usually get called, and even if you don't, the blinds are nice when you are this short.Don't raise 3x and let AK fold a bad flop.Make him call as a huge dog preflop, cause he will.

[KingAustin 0]

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

I'm glad that's just your opinion, because no one else agrees. You have to mix up your play if you want to succeed.

Hmm, three people. Yep, I'd say that's everyone. Nice sample, douche.

Ok, let me rephrase, no one else, but fish, will agree. We dont even know what the blinds are you stupid prick.

But you see, in my post, I said with blinds at 500-1000, a push is not in order. I usually reserve open-pushing preflop to under 10X BB, which is what most people do, I think you'll find. You decided that in a STRATEGY section, instead of disputing my play with some kind of useful information or assessment of the situation, you'd just basically call me an a$shole. That's a great way to dispute poker strategy: slam anyone who disagrees with your so non-fish like strategy. Now fall on a knife.

Well no shit most people push PF with under 10BB, that's just common sense. But yes, I did pretty much call you an *******, as I can tell by your avatar.

[otnemem 0]

The "textbook" streategy for pushing PF in NL holdem is 10BB or less. But you have to get out of the kiddie pool.If you only have 13.5 BB left, and you get dealt aces, you should be without a doubt moving in.Why?Because decent to big stacks call with all these hands.ATs, AJ, AJs, AQ, AQs, AK, AKs, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77.then not to mention all the novice players who will think it is a coin flip and call with any pair.And not to mention the huge stacks who will call with any ace.not to mention all the idiots who will call with KQ.pushing here with aces is good because you usually get called, and even if you don't, the blinds are nice when you are this short.Don't raise 3x and let AK fold a bad flop.Make him call as a huge dog preflop, cause he will.

You don't think there's any validity to the idea that a 3X BB raise might look weak, and you'll get put all in by a weak range of hands? If PH has 13BB left and raises 3BB, AK is surely going to come over the top for the rest of his chips.

[KingAustin 0]

If someone had AK, they would call your all in.Edit-just noticed Absolute's post. Nice post Absolute. :-)

[otnemem 0]

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

I'm glad that's just your opinion, because no one else agrees. You have to mix up your play if you want to succeed.

Hmm, three people. Yep, I'd say that's everyone. Nice sample, douche.

Ok, let me rephrase, no one else, but fish, will agree. We dont even know what the blinds are you stupid prick.

But you see, in my post, I said with blinds at 500-1000, a push is not in order. I usually reserve open-pushing preflop to under 10X BB, which is what most people do, I think you'll find. You decided that in a STRATEGY section, instead of disputing my play with some kind of useful information or assessment of the situation, you'd just basically call me an a$shole. That's a great way to dispute poker strategy: slam anyone who disagrees with your so non-fish like strategy. Now fall on a knife.

Well no shit most people push PF with under 10BB, that's just common sense. But yes, I did pretty much call you an censored, as I can tell by your avatar.

Well there you go. My avatar - another great topic for a poker strategy forum.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Which is exactly what Hellmuth wants, not to mention all the other hands suggested in the thread so far. Brilliant play, lost amongst the weak minded... :wink:

[Absolute 0]

The "textbook" streategy for pushing PF in NL holdem is 10BB or less. But you have to get out of the kiddie pool.If you only have 13.5 BB left, and you get dealt aces, you should be without a doubt moving in.Why?Because decent to big stacks call with all these hands.ATs, AJ, AJs, AQ, AQs, AK, AKs, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77.then not to mention all the novice players who will think it is a coin flip and call with any pair.And not to mention the huge stacks who will call with any ace.not to mention all the idiots who will call with KQ.pushing here with aces is good because you usually get called, and even if you don't, the blinds are nice when you are this short.Don't raise 3x and let AK fold a bad flop.Make him call as a huge dog preflop, cause he will.

You don't think there's any validity to the idea that a 3X BB raise might look weak, and you'll get put all in by a weak range of hands? If PH has 13BB left and raises 3BB, AK is surely going to come over the top for the rest of his chips.

absolutely, but the person who does this will also call an all-in.so why risk him not doing it?see what i mean?heres an analogy.say you have the opportunity to sleep with one of a group of 10 women. about 85% of the time one of them will sleep with you if you press the "Yes" button. they are all very hot.But, you can choose the "No" button if you are not content with 85% of the time, and let them choose for yourself.Now, look in the mirror.Yes, that's right, I win.

[Kendren 1]

How can anyone even begin to doubt any play made by Hellmuth?  All-in pre-flop with aces by Hellmuth - I'm folding every time.  9 bracelets fellas...NINE! :wink:

And not a single one in omaha.AA, good push there.on the last hand. yes, loose call by the K-J-J-9, but I thought Phil was all about having the best hand when the money goes in. A-K-8-7 doesn't seem to me to be that preflop. Just my opinion, I know I'm wrong.

[....Ian.... 0]

speaking of omaha. i'm realtively new to it and still learning:(this is for limit play)what are some general guidlines for good starting hands?should i always play a suited ace in a loose game?etc. etc.Shoudl i jsut basically follow sklansky's breakdown of suitedness, high card strength, and connectivityany advice would be great. thanks.

[Kendren 1]

speaking of omaha. i'm realtively new to it and still learning:(this is for limit play)what are some general guidlines for good starting hands?should i always play a suited ace in a loose game?etc. etc.Shoudl i jsut basically follow sklansky's breakdown of suitedness, high card strength, and connectivityany advice would be great. thanks.

Check out the omaha poker forum. Those 2 threads are still very near the top.

[RISEorFall 0]

Ok hold on...not pushing with AA here is not horrible. Anybody who says it's just the absolute wrong play needs to get their head out of their ass. Yes, its a good play and Absolute has given several reasons why, but it's not the only right play here. Raising 3-4x PF here and then pushing on the flop is not a bad idea. It may get some callers PF and more money in the pot, and someone may hit something to call you with on the flop. If not, well then you've picked up a nice pot anyway. Absolute is the only one who is explaining any of his opinions, King Austin is just being a ****wad. And otnemem, unless you're Canadian or European...he is your president. I don't like him either, but that doesn't mean he isn't your president. I hate those stupid ass shirts and stickers etc.

[otnemem 0]

Ok hold on...not pushing with AA here is not horrible. Anybody who says it's just the absolute wrong play needs to get their head out of their ass. Yes, its a good play and Absolute has given several reasons why, but it's not the only right play here. Raising 3-4x PF here and then pushing on the flop is not a bad idea. It may get some callers PF and more money in the pot, and someone may hit something to call you with on the flop. If not, well then you've picked up a nice pot anyway. Absolute is the only one who is explaining any of his opinions, King Austin is just being a censored. And otnemem, unless you're Canadian or European...he is your president. I don't like him either, but that doesn't mean he isn't your president. I hate those stupid ass shirts and stickers etc.

Ever heard of the term "figurative?"

[allinbluff35 0]

TTIDAH