7 replies to this topic

[TRYING2GTEVEN]

so i'm playing in ultimate bets 200+15 65k guarantee on sunday night:370 players to start 60 left pays top 40i have 17k in chips good for like 10th or so...following hand occurs:i get 55 in mid to late position (7th i think) i limp 2 others limp small blind raises to 2200 (blinds 300-600)i call (probably the mistake)flop comes j47 rainbow he bets 1k, I put him on some kind of A or small PP and raise to 5k he thinks and calls 6 comes on turn giving me o-e he cksi proceed to follow thru w/ the semi bluff go all in for my remaining 10k in chips, he thinks foreeeever..and calls and flips up 1010 BLANK on river i'm out.... bad play? great call? opinions and thought please

[Spidurman]

small pairs suck multiway unless you hit the set (and a good flop texture). You had under middle pair - even his ace-rag could well be ahead.

[pkarcher]

Calling the raise with a small pair was probably a mistake. Heads up you are at best a coin flip if he has overcards and a huge underdog if he has a higher pair. So once have made the play, a pretty harmless looking flop falls and you bluff at it. The bluff is not a bad play, but your bet is too small to convince him to fold. The final play for all your chips, I don't think was a great play either, though once you are so committed to this pot you really are in a bind. checking projects weakness and another smallish bet won't get a fold. Definitely the biggest mistake was getting involved to begin with.

[CoranMoran]

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i get 55 in mid to late position (7th i think) i limp 2 others limp small blind raises to 2200 (blinds 300-600)i call (probably the mistake)

The key to deciding whether or not to play a small pocket pair is to determine how many other players will be seeing the flop.If your 5's do not improve, then your hand is unlikely to be the best at the end.And, unfortunately, the odds are that your 5's will not improve.For this reason, it is important that you have several people in this pot so that you have the proper pot odds to play your pocket pair.If I knew that I was going to have to play head's up against the preflop raiser, then I would probably fold my 5's to a sizable raise.However, if the two limpers in your example both called the raise, I would gladly pay to see the flop.If the limpers were yet to act, then your decision is more difficult and must be based on your knowledge of the other players thus far.

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flop comes j47 rainbow he bets 1k, I put him on some kind of A or small PP and raise to 5k

His weak lead did seem to imply that he missed the flop.So your attempt to try to take down this pot right here is understandable.Bluffing in these positions is situational and must be based on your read. But it can be profitable if you know your opponent well enough.Your bluff is about the size of the pot and seems to be an appropriate amount.

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he thinks and calls  

Ok, so that didn't work.But you may have gotten something out of your bet.Your raise implied strength. So it is very possible that he will check to you after the turn giviving you a free river card. In that case, your 5k bluff would have at least given you the chance to see all five cards, thus increasing the odds that you will hit your set.

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6 comes on turn giving me o-e he cks

The 6 gave you some more outs, so you are still looking ok.And as we hoped, he checked to you giving you the chance to see the important river card.

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i proceed to follow thru w/ the semi bluff go all in for my remaining 10k in chips

This is where I think you may have steered wrong.With 60 players left, you are approaching the money and would love to last a little longer.You still have plenty of chips left so there is a lot of game left to play.Your opponent raised preflop so he must be holding something decent.If you have a strong read that your opponent has nothing, then a huge bet here may take the pot. But in order to invest your entire stack on this semi-bluff, you need to be very confident that you know this opponent very well.Your other option is to take the free card that you have been given. If you hit one of your outs, then you are sitting pretty to place a nice bet on the river. If your opponent thinks he is currently ahead and a 3, 5 or 8 hits on the river to give you the best hand, your opponent's 10's still look strong, so he will very possibly feel that he still has you beat. This will lead to a nice pay-off for you.However, if the river misses you completely, you will not have invested any more money into this measly pair of 5's.And if the river is a scare card for your opponent (an overcard to his 10's), he very well may check it to you again. So you will actually have the chance to see if your 5's are lucky enough to be the best for free.

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he thinks foreeeever..and calls and flips up 1010 BLANK on river i'm out.... bad play? great call? opinions and thought please

With an overcard on the board, this was a very speculative call for him to make considering how aggressive you were on the hand. However, if you had developed an aggressive reputation at this table previously, then he was right to be confident that you did not have a Jack.Your bet was a gamble that I think will work a good percentage of time.Unfortunately, in tournaments, it only takes one bad decision to end your day and kill your chances for the money.So unless you are on a solid read, it is often best not to bluff the preflop raiser with all your chips.Recommendation: When presented with the opportunity to bluff away all of your chips, sometimes you should step back for a moment, take a deep breath, and take the free card. You can then reassess the situation on the river.--cnm

[Smasharoo]

Bad play and it didn't work out this time.When it works, clearly it's a good play. I don't think it's going to work very often against a PF raiser who calls a big flop bet.

[Spidurman]

Gap concept - takes a stronger hand to call than to bet. Once I am called on the flop, just check/fold and try again next hand.

[Eskimo]

TRYING2GTEVEN said:

i proceed to follow thru w/ the semi bluff go all in for my remaining 10k in chips, he thinks foreeeever..and calls

I think thats where you made your main mistake.You were pretty close to making the money. Why not wait until your in the money, then start making plays on people? And you're also out of position.

[TRYING2GTEVEN]

thanks guys...good posts good replies....i appreciate it...i often find when i'm doing well in a tournament (bluffing right times...calling w/ mid pair and being good) I get ahead of myself, and think that I have to (and have the ability to) win every pot i enter.... ps..about the "your close to the money comments" I wasnt playing to "win" my money back....thanks guys!!!