24 replies to this topic

[mkeller3086]

A questionable hand came up in a game I was playing the other night and I'd like everyone's opinion.At the time we were playing a four handed cash game with .25-.50 blinds.It was folded to me on the button and I raised to 2.00 with K-6The big blind raised it 4.00 more and the action came back to me.I thought the big blind was on a steal (I know how he plays fairly well, we've played together twice a week for the past 18 months) and raised 14.00 more (probably too much).After atleast two minutes of deliberation the big blind moves all in and he has me covered. After all the action it will cost me 25.00 more to call into a 61.75 pot.I sat there and thought about it and went through his range of hands. I did not think he was strong because it took him so long to move all in. He knew he caught me stealing and was pretty sure I was going to fold so he accidently opened his mouth and gave away some information about his hand. He said, "you must have two overs". I felt he was genuinely serious and thought of his range of hands to be any pair (except for big pairs because he wouldn't have deliberated so long to push all in.) The pot was laying me 2.47-1 and I felt that was enough pot overlay considering what I thought his range of hands was to make the call.I also made the call for another reason. We were going to play four handed for the next 3 or 4 hours and I didn't want the other players to constantly take shots at me because I am known as a player who will usually dump my hand to a raise.My real question is: Getting 2.47-1 on this call and reading him for not a whole lot of strength, should I be folding a marginal hand like this or get my money in with the right price to call?My opponent had 10-10 and I spiked a K on the river to take the pot. Thanks for any responses.

[Amadeus]

Sounds like you are trying to apply tournament strategy to a ring game. Since the blinds never go up and are usually miinimal compared to your stack size, stealing is not a very useful strategy in ring games. If I was you, I would be raising with K6 thinking it might be the best hand four handed. After he re-raised I would have either folded or smooth called hoping a K falls on the flop. His raise was so small that he was looking for a call which should scare you a little more. Re-raising here is not an option IMO. It seems like your opponent played his hand perfectly and you got lucky and won.

[Jordan]

mkeller3086 said:

A questionable hand came up in a game I was playing the other night and I'd like everyone's opinion.At the time we were playing a four handed cash game with .25-.50 blinds.It was folded to me on the button and I raised to 2.00 with K-6The big blind raised it 4.00 more and the action came back to me.I thought the big blind was on a steal (I know how he plays fairly well, we've played together twice a week for the past 18 months) and raised 14.00 more (probably too much).After atleast two minutes of deliberation the big blind moves all in and he has me covered. After all the action it will cost me 25.00 more to call into a 61.75 pot.I sat there and thought about it and went through his range of hands. I did not think he was strong because it took him so long to move all in. He knew he caught me stealing and was pretty sure I was going to fold so he accidently opened his mouth and gave away some information about his hand. He said, "you must have two overs". I felt he was genuinely serious and thought of his range of hands to be any pair (except for big pairs because he wouldn't have deliberated so long to push all in.) The pot was laying me 2.47-1 and I felt that was enough pot overlay considering what I thought his range of hands was to make the call.I also made the call for another reason. We were going to play four handed for the next 3 or 4 hours and I didn't want the other players to constantly take shots at me because I am known as a player who will usually dump my hand to a raise.My real question is: Getting 2.47-1 on this call and reading him for not a whole lot of strength, should I be folding a marginal hand like this or get my money in with the right price to call?My opponent had 10-10 and I spiked a K on the river to take the pot. Thanks for any responses.

I don't know about the math on this hand. I would like to know how much you started with though, as that will give more info about your re/raise.You probably know this, but you misplayed the hand horribly and got super lucky. I am interested to see the math here, as I'm am a failure at math...but whatever.- Jordan

[21gambit]

mkeller3086 said:

The big blind raised it 4.00 more and the action came back to me.I thought the big blind was on a steal (I know how he plays fairly well, we've played together twice a week for the past 18 months) and raised 14.00 more (probably too much).After atleast two minutes of deliberation the big blind moves all in and he has me covered. After all the action it will cost me 25.00 more to call into a 61.75 pot.

So, with the blinds, theres .75 in the pot, then your 2= 2.75, then his 6=8.75 4+14 = 38.75 plus 25 = 38.75 dollar pot, 25 to call. You are getting about 2.5 to 1 but youre also just barely better than a 4 to 1 dog if he has a pair between 6s and Queens(meaning your king is live).Atrocious call. Sounds like you got your emotions tied up in your play and got lucky.10 10 vs k6 = approx 72% to 28%

[JTPHS]

sounds like you're playing in way to tough a game lolbut, anyway.. you should never get yourself in that situation.. out play them after the flop.

[SabaAba]

Like everyone said, bad call, good river :-)Next time fold to a reraise with K6 or just call preflop and proceed cautiously.

[TheIceman05]

21gambit said:

mkeller3086 said:

The big blind raised it 4.00 more and the action came back to me.I thought the big blind was on a steal (I know how he plays fairly well, we've played together twice a week for the past 18 months) and raised 14.00 more (probably too much).After atleast two minutes of deliberation the big blind moves all in and he has me covered. After all the action it will cost me 25.00 more to call into a 61.75 pot.

So, with the blinds, theres .75 in the pot, then your 2= 2.75, then his 6=8.75 4+14 = 38.75 plus 25 = 38.75 dollar pot, 25 to call. You are getting about 2.5 to 1 but youre also just barely better than a 4 to 1 dog if he has a pair between 6s and Queens(meaning your king is live).Atrocious call. Sounds like you got your emotions tied up in your play and got lucky.10 10 vs k6 = approx 72% to 28%

...he's nowhere near a 4-1 dog. You even got the percentages right. He's about a 2.6-1 dog. Ice

[21gambit]

3 to 1 is what I was thinking but not typing, upon further inspection its just between 2.5 and 2.6

[gosmaster]

First of all, your re raise was terrible... the steal try was ok because you were 4 handed, but when they come back on you double your raise, you should consider folding, or at max call and see on the flop... But, let's forget about that and concentrate on the decision after you were potcommitedActually, your odds for this hand was 72.3% vs 27.7% against so you are a 3 to 1 underdog approx and you said your pot odds were 2.5 to 1... So just by the odds, you should quit the hand but it's close... But let's consider other factors. You have a long nigth still going on after that, so the other players migth pay you back a lot after a so much loose raise, the other may have hard time reading your play all nigth long after that one.... Do you have a lot of money left on your bankroll to buy in several other times??? in that case, it migth be an investment to do so.... As far as I am concerned, I would have fold after the 4$ reraise meaning you were way beaten, but if you want to change your table image... By the way, if we comeback on your 14$ reraise, you know after that one you are going to be pot commited, so you should have tougth about this decision before doing your reraisehope it helps...

[Socrates]

The pair is a 5-2 favorite here. Bad call.

[21gambit]

the percentages range a tiny amount depending on which suits each player holds (more importantly, on whether or not they overlap) so you cannot give the exact percentages since the suits werent stated. hes getting close to 1.5 to 1, bad call

[21gambit]

I flip flop so much you can call me john kerry

[SapphireTiger]

K6 what an ugly hand

[Smasharoo]

After atleast two minutes of deliberation the big blind moves all in and he has me covered. After all the action it will cost me 25.00 more to call into a 61.75 pot. Automatic call any two cards.You're better off with 26 here, but you have to call.

[mkeller3086]

ok maybe I made a mistake in putting down that he had 10-10I understand it was a bad call if i KNEW he had two tens but obviously I could only put him on a range of hands. what I was wondering really was how bad of a hand is K6 when I'm getting 2.5-1 and I know I'm not being completely crushed here by any means. How much can you really open up if you are getting all ur chips in being laid 2.5-1?

[JJACKSON123]

My own humble opinion...... First of all I think your opponent did a good job by "opening his mouth", and talking about your overs and getting you to call an all in with a very weak hand, I bet he was very happy to see you shove your chips in and flip over K-6 off suit.When you hear him talk about your overs do you immidiately put him on 5-5, 4-4,3-3, or 2-2? Is this the kind of player that would risk $40+ dollars on a small pocket pair? You talk about a variety of hands that you put him on, how many of those hands did you have beat? (Very few) How many did you see a race (4) and how many did you see yourself crushed? (The rest of them)... I think the bottem line is this: if ou call and your opponent flips of a low pocket pair or a hand like A-Q or A-J then you definately made the right call... but your talking about 6 hands... 6! any other hand has you crushed and you are close to getting the right odds, but the key word is close... I myself am more worried about my chip stack than he image I have at my table, I am sure you can wait for a better spot than K-6. By raising him after he re-raised you, I guess your saying that either your folding or your calling off the rest of your chips with K-6 off, so why did you make such a terrible raise and put yourself in that situation, either raise more if you think hes weak or fold if you think he's strong. I think you trapped yourself here and forced yourself to make a decision at the table in which you were HOPEING that you were a small underdog. I think any player who gets his opponenet to get all in pre flop being a 72% favorite made the right play, and I think the 10-10 guy read you well and played his hand even better.Weird play, but there is luck involved in poker and im happy you spiked a king on the river. How did the rest of your night go? And if smash (If that really is smash) wants to call an all in getting 2.5-1 pot odds with 6-2 off suit everytime I think we all need to stand up and say one thing.... stick to limit bro.... just kidding, but we all know the real smash died a long long time ago

[JJACKSON123]

I forgot one thing....K-6?

[flyingmoose]

You committed your entire stack to win a ~$8 pot with K6. You have to be right on that reraise WAY too often for it to be a good one.

[Smasharoo]

Yeah, obviously everything before the last call is a nightmare disaster of retarded chimpdom.You hve to call at the end though.Then see if you can get a job offering rides to tourists down the grand canyon.With the other donkies.

[RISEorFall]

Smasharoo said:

Then see if you can get a job offering rides to tourists down the grand canyon.With the other donkies.

Classic, totally classic.