14 replies to this topic

[CrazyEyez]

Last week, i played the 11:00am tournament at Harrah's in Vegas. Overall, i played pretty well and made it to the final table and then this hand came up:Blinds were 2000/4000 with 500 ante. Nine players left, with 8 placed getting paid. I'm in the BB with 10,000 chips. UTG was the short stack and moves all-in for about 7500. I had this guy at my table for most of the tournament and figured he had Ax. It folded around to the cutoff who started looking at everyone's chips and asked how much i had left. He had also been at my previous table and was pretty easy to read, so i put him on a good pair. i was thinking J's. He raised to 10,000. I looked down and see A9 suited.Now, thinking UTG had Ax and putting him on J's, i figure if i call i'm a big dog. If UTG gets knocked out, i finish in the money. I thought very long until the dealer finally gave me one minute to act. I folded the hand. UTG flips over A4 and the other guy has pocket 10's. Of course an Ace comes on the turn and UTG doubles up. I'm down to 6000 and a couple of hands later i'm out in 9th place. I keep replaying this hand over and over in my head. Should i have called since i was short stacked even though i was pretty sure i was behind?

[Frills]

Going by your read, you had 2 outs. Regardless of the outcome, it was the right move.

[Rocketwadster]

Easy laydown there, if your goal is to make the money. If money means nothing to you (winning is everything), you should have called. :wink:

[creepy20]

i think you made the right move even though it didn't work out. Your read was great and like another guy said..you only had 2 outs...did you get blinded out?? what was the hand that you made your move on?

[cdddc75]

Rocketwadster said:

Easy laydown there, if your goal is to make the money. If money means nothing to you (winning is everything), you should have called. :wink:

Hero finishes in the money if he calls and busts along with UTG. Hero would be all in the next time BB comes around to him. Even though he's probably screwed, calling here is best just because of the pot size and chip stacks.

[Rocketwadster]

He folds, he is down to 7500 (I think), and sits out hoping someone else busts (or picks up a better hand before he is blinded/anteed to death, and rolls the dice). This would be playing it safe, hoping to make the money.He calls, hoping to triple up (and put himself in contention to win), and if he loses and busts out on the bubble, life goes on. This is playing to win.Huge difference. Many people play to make the money (including myself), and many others play to win. Easy fold for my playstyle in a big money tourney with that position, cards, and chip stacks. :wink:

[CrazyEyez]

creepy20 said:

i think you made the right move even though it didn't work out. Your read was great and like another guy said..you only had 2 outs...did you get blinded out?? what was the hand that you made your move on?

Yeah, i was pretty happy with my read, and thought i made the right move. I folded in the small blind and moved in with my remaining 3000 with K5 on the button. Antes were 500. Small blind had pocket 10's. Big blind had pocket 6's and made a set on the flop and busted the SB. Just to add insult to injury, i hit a K on the turn. So i went out in 9th. SB got 8th.

[cdddc75]

Rocketwadster said:

He folds, he is down to 7500 (I think), and sits out hoping someone else busts (or picks up a better hand before he is blinded/anteed to death, and rolls the dice). This would be playing it safe, hoping to make the money.He calls, hoping to triple up (and put himself in contention to win), and if he loses and busts out on the bubble, life goes on. This is playing to win.Huge difference. Many people play to make the money (including myself), and many others play to win. Easy fold for my playstyle in a big money tourney with that position, cards, and chip stacks. :wink:

I actually think he's got a better chance to make the money by calling. UTG has to beat both hands to stay alive. Hero gets paid otherwise AND has a chance to triple up.Hero might have played it safe, but that was the wrong move in this case to even make the money.

[Rocketwadster]

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I actually think he's got a better chance to make the money by calling. UTG has to beat both hands to stay alive. Hero gets paid otherwise AND has a chance to triple up.Hero might have played it safe, but that was the wrong move in this case to even make the money.

I agree in principal, but no tin this case. UTG was the one who pushed. UTG. There are lots of hands that someone UTG would push with, many of which have us beat right now. Then there is the CO to also contend with. CO clearly wanted this hand to be heads up (how much do they got left he asks), which tells me that he has a good enough hand to call UTG raise, but not good enough that he wants us to call. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.Do we call if there is no CO in the equation? I don't think so, so doesn't teh CO make our chances even slimmer? :? :? :?

[CrazyEyez]

cdddc75 said:

Rocketwadster said:

He folds, he is down to 7500 (I think), and sits out hoping someone else busts (or picks up a better hand before he is blinded/anteed to death, and rolls the dice). This would be playing it safe, hoping to make the money.He calls, hoping to triple up (and put himself in contention to win), and if he loses and busts out on the bubble, life goes on. This is playing to win.Huge difference. Many people play to make the money (including myself), and many others play to win. Easy fold for my playstyle in a big money tourney with that position, cards, and chip stacks. :wink:

I actually think he's got a better chance to make the money by calling. UTG has to beat both hands to stay alive. Hero gets paid otherwise AND has a chance to triple up.Hero might have played it safe, but that was the wrong move in this case to even make the money.

That did cross my mind which made the decision even more difficult. Do i make the play that's mathematically correct or do i hope to triple up and then i'm probably playing for the top 3? What if UTG has AT or AJ? I'm dead. I was 50/50 on the call. Dealer gave me one minute to act or i might have thought about it for another 2 or 3 minutes.

[cdddc75]

Rocketwadster said:

Quote

I actually think he's got a better chance to make the money by calling. UTG has to beat both hands to stay alive. Hero gets paid otherwise AND has a chance to triple up.Hero might have played it safe, but that was the wrong move in this case to even make the money.

I agree in principal, but no tin this case. UTG was the one who pushed. UTG. There are lots of hands that someone UTG would push with, many of which have us beat right now. Then there is the CO to also contend with. CO clearly wanted this hand to be heads up (how much do they got left he asks), which tells me that he has a good enough hand to call UTG raise, but not good enough that he wants us to call. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.Do we call if there is no CO in the equation? I don't think so, so doesn't teh CO make our chances even slimmer? :? :? :?

Think it through:1. CO beats Hero and UTG = Hero finishes 8th and gets paid2. Hero beats CO and UTG = Hero triples up and gets paid3. Hero beats CO, loses to UTG = Hero is still alive, but with a slightly smaller stack than if he folds.4. UTG beats CO and Hero = Hero is out in 9thSee why CO's presence in this pot helps us now?

[Rocketwadster]

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Think it through:1. CO beats Hero and UTG = Hero finishes 8th and gets paid2. Hero beats CO and UTG = Hero triples up and gets paid3. Hero beats CO, loses to UTG = Hero is still alive, but with a slightly smaller stack than if he folds.4. UTG beats CO and Hero = Hero is out in 9thSee why CO's presence in this pot helps us now?

It is item 4 that bother's me, as obviouosly we like 1, 2, and 3. Lol. :wink: Take the CO out of the equation, are you calling? That is the key I think... :?

[cdddc75]

CrazyEyez said:

That did cross my mind which made the decision even more difficult. Do i make the play that's mathematically correct or do i hope to triple up and then i'm probably playing for the top 3? What if UTG has AT or AJ? I'm dead. I was 50/50 on the call. Dealer gave me one minute to act or i might have thought about it for another 2 or 3 minutes.

It's a tough call to make on the spot. As long as your cards give you any hope at all (which yours did), you need to think through the outcome possibilities more so than the odds of the hand itself.Good question.

[cdddc75]

Rocketwadster said:

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Think it through:1. CO beats Hero and UTG = Hero finishes 8th and gets paid2. Hero beats CO and UTG = Hero triples up and gets paid3. Hero beats CO, loses to UTG = Hero is still alive, but with a slightly smaller stack than if he folds.4. UTG beats CO and Hero = Hero is out in 9thSee why CO's presence in this pot helps us now?

It is item 4 that bother's me, as obviouosly we like 1, 2, and 3. Lol. :wink: Take the CO out of the equation, are you calling? That is the key I think... :?

It's an entirely different question then. CO's presence changes this from a read situation (do I have UTG beat?) to a outcome based situation.

[Rocketwadster]

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It's an entirely different question then. CO's presence changes this from a read situation (do I have UTG beat?) to a outcome based situation.

Gotcha. It's clear as mud now. :wink: