9 replies to this topic

[Briguy]

Lately, I've been limp-reraising with AA and KK in the UTG or UTG+1 position about 50% of the time (the first time it's dealt to me in such a position at a given table, but not the second, should it happen a second time). I pick tables with high preflop percentages, and find that about 70% of the time someone behind me will raise, while about 30% of the time, nobody raises. I have dragged some enormous pots using this tactic (I recall a couple of 25+ BB pots versus TPGK hands, lower PPs, counterfeited 2-pair, or my favourite: TPTK when I have the set). I've probably also lost a couple of extra pots, where an early preflop raise could've convinced 22 or QT to fold. I'm fairly certain that the extra size of the wins outweigh the couple of extra losses. Am I crazy? Should I stop doing the limp-reraise? Discuss.Edited to change the thread title...

[cdddc75]

Limp/reraising is a high risk/potentially high reward strategy. You intentionally forfeit a thinner field in favor of the possibility of a bigger pot. By making the pot so big preflop, you depend on having your hand hold up against just about every draw imaginable, since they will almost have odds to call all the way down.I suppose you really should have a sample size of several hundred hands in this situation where you raised compared to a similar range where you limp/reraised to know which strategy is "better" based on BB/100.I have no idea why you mentioned SSHE in the subject line. Since you did, I assume that they recommend raising instead of limp/reraising because it is more profitable.

[econ_tim]

Are AA and KK the only hands you limp-raise with? If so, then I would either start playing them standard, i.e. raise and reraise, or add some other limp-raise hands. Otherwise, observant players will know that when you limp-raise you have AA or KK and they will be able to outplay you postflop. It sounds like you play at pretty loose tables and that you would get a lot of cold calls if you open raise. Like cdddc said, you're trading off a smaller field, which gives you a bigger chance of winning, against a bigger pot, which increases the size of the possible win. If you really want to evaluate this, track a lot of hands on Poker Tracker and compare the amount won per hand when you open raise versus when you limp raise.I guess you will need a lot of hands to do this, since you get AA or KK only 1 out of 100 times, and you probably only want to look at plays from early position.

[cdddc75]

Alternatively, I should go through my PT database and evaluate all preflop limp/reraises. My guess is that most of them are from AA or KK. If so, I should probably start folding on the flop UI.

[BeanGW]

econ_tim said:

Are AA and KK the only hands you limp-raise with? If so, then I would either start playing them standard, i.e. raise and reraise, or add some other limp-raise hands. Otherwise, observant players will know that when you limp-raise you have AA or KK and they will be able to outplay you postflop.

Tim, the OP said that he mixes it up with Aces and K's. I think he's OK in that regard.

[econ_tim]

BeanGW said:

Tim, the OP said that he mixes it up with Aces and K's. I think he's OK in that regard.

I'm still not sure about this. He says he limp-reraises with AA or KK 50% of the time with them, and he open raises the rest of the time.But I don't see where he says he limp-reraises any other hands.If not, then the Bayesians among us can tell that whenever he limp-reraises, he must have AA or KK.BTW, here is one example of a limp reraise that worked out horribly for AA.http://www.fullconta...6008&highlight=

[DKE_XP120]

cdddc75 said:

Alternatively, I should go through my PT database and evaluate all preflop limp/reraises. My guess is that most of them are from AA or KK. If so, I should probably start folding on the flop UI.

i've done it twice in my history, once was a misclick, where I meant to fold. The other was a misclick where I went to raise KK, and hit call by mistake and then raised.

[Briguy]

Quote

I'm still not sure about this. He says he limp-reraises with AA or KK 50% of the time with them, and he open raises the rest of the time.

I want to watch the discussion, not interject too much, but I tend to limp-reraise only with AA and KK (with the 50%ish rule). It's not always the first time I get the hand, either (sometimes I lose track of where I've done such a thing when 4- or 5-tabling). It is kinda safe for observant opponents who've seen me do this to put me on AA or KK when I limp-raise now, so maybe I should add AK and AQs to the list.The times that it gets called around, my hand is very well disguised, but obviously more vulnerable to a lucky 2-pair or whatnot. I'm not really worried about the average opponent reading my hand when I do reraise at SSHE tables. I also suspect that this move (if I get to use it) gives me more leeway to loosen up my limping standards from bad position. But then, my opponents are generally unobservant, so I dunno. I'm really of two minds about the whole thing. I'm just experimenting with the idea. I'll dig up some hand histories when I get home from work this evening.

[cdddc75]

DKE_XP120 said:

cdddc75 said:

Alternatively, I should go through my PT database and evaluate all preflop limp/reraises. My guess is that most of them are from AA or KK. If so, I should probably start folding on the flop UI.

i've done it twice in my history, once was a misclick, where I meant to fold. The other was a misclick where I went to raise KK, and hit call by mistake and then raised.

I meant all of my opposition's limp/redonks. Any of mine would be similar to yours.

[custom36]

Limp-reraises suck. The "move" screams "I have Aces or kings!" Don't do it.