79 replies to this topic

[21gambit]

Im just curious how you all play pocket aces pre and post flop in a NL cash game, I know it all depends but what Im really asking is, how much do you bet, I have a tendency of raising 5 to 6 times the blinds(of course it depends on how much people at the table are willing to call pre-flop, but this amount tends to thin the field between me and 1 or 2 other players in the game I play. I tend to raise this amount, unless there are alot of limpers, in which case I increase the raise by around 1 bb for every limper. Now, post flop, how much do you bet? I usually bet about the size of the pot when its headsup and half to 2/3rds when its 3 way. 3x my original raise when its multiway. This of course depends on how scarey the board is and isnt a hard and fast rule for me. My main concern is that I may be overbetting so that people call with pocket pairs hoping to set knowing how much they can exploit me for post flop since I make a large continuation bet.

[Smasharoo]

$50 says you'd make more money just going all in with them pre-flop every time.

[21gambit]

ok, well then how do you play kings?

[Smasharoo]

ok, well then how do you play kings?The same way.

[TheIceman05]

DO NOT get into the habit of making your standard bet unstandard. That is, if you're playing in a solid NL game, don't raise differently depending on your hand. I usually play s/h NL games, and I raise to 4x on every raising hand regardless of the hand. Depending on the players at my table, I'll raise more or less in/out of position. But this is usually in the more extreme circumstances, when I'm against a maniac of an ultra-tight fool.You're asking the wrong question! If you want to know how to play Aces, think about how most people play most hands. Think how you can extract maximum value against an average hand. What hands will pay you off? What hands might reraise you preflop? What hands might call preflop? How are you usually perceived at the table?? It's not an issue of "do I raise more?" or "do I raise less?" It's an issue of "what does my raise do, and why?"Ice

[Smasharoo]

No, really.All in pre-flop.AA are a huge pain in the ass to play postflop in NL.You'll get called preflop a lot more than you'd imagine and it's impossible to make any mistakes postflop.Why make something very smple hard?

[allinbluff35]

moving in preflop out of the blue is stupid unless you have 20xbb or less in a 100bb+ game.

[21gambit]

Maximum value against an average hand? I dont want to go up against multiple average hands, the raise is intended to thin the field so that hopefully the aces can hold up against one or two callers. I think the question is a valid one about the size of your bets both post flop and pre-flop. How do you play them post flop? Dont give me it depends, an un co-ordinated board flops, your against two other players, youve made your standard 4bb raise, how much do you bet?

[Smasharoo]

moving in preflop out of the blue is stupid unless you have 20xbb or less in a 100bb+ game.Of course it isn't, unless you never get called and no one ever raises in front of you.When you find that game, let me know so I can avoid playing in it.Otherwise, the more xBB you have, the better a play it is.

[allinbluff35]

Smasharoo said:

moving in preflop out of the blue is stupid unless you have 20xbb or less in a 100bb+ game.Of course it isn't, unless you never get called and no one ever raises in front of you.When you find that game, let me know so I can avoid playing in it.Otherwise, the more xBB you have, the better a play it is.

show me the numbers to back it up then.

[Smasharoo]

show me the numbers to back it up then.To back what up?That getting all the money in with the best hand is good?Explain to me how you think you'd have better RoI playing it any other way.

[TheIceman05]

21gambit said:

Dont give me it depends, an un co-ordinated board flops, your against two other players, youve made your standard 4bb raise, how much do you bet?

In my game- a standard s/h game where I have relatively solid reads against the players involved- if I raise 3x before the flop and I get two callers, and "an un co-ordinated board flops." I will usually double my preflop bet, depending on how many hands I've been raising lately and how likely I think it is that my opponents will play back at me or call with a marginal hand. This is usually mathematically incorrect... I like to bet less than is appropriate to shut out certain draws. I'm good. I can fold when people make their hands, etc.Ice

[TheIceman05]

Smasharoo said:

show me the numbers to back it up then.To back what up?That getting all the money in with the best hand is good?Explain to me how you think you'd have better RoI playing it any other way.

Raising all-in preflop with AA is just silly if you're even mildly skilled. If you're not, it's fine.... but it's better to just make a standard raise and learn how the heck to play post-flop. Don't be an arse and teach people how NOT to play solid profitable poker. You know better than that.Ice

[allinbluff35]

Smasharoo said:

show me the numbers to back it up then.To back what up?That getting all the money in with the best hand is good?Explain to me how you think you'd have better RoI playing it any other way.

explain to me how you think you're going to make it more profitable than actually playing the hand well post flop.

[PrtyPSux]

Smasharoo said:

$50 says you'd make more money just going all in with them pre-flop every time.

yep, I just got in the habbit of doing this, there will be times when people fold, BUT eventually you will get called and win. The only problem with this is that when you do get called and win, you have to leave the table; if not you have to convince the table that you wont do that again.here are my recent results (that I can remember) with Aces:times that Ive gone all-in and been called preflop 3. money made $150times that Ive played it normal about 3, 1st- I raised $2 ( blinds .25/.50) got 3 callers, flop comes k,x,4 I bet the pot raise get reraised and I re-reraise, he calls, turn comes x I bet he pushes I call he has a set of 4s I catch a set on the river and get lucky.2nd- flop comes QJx I bet the pot a dude calls trun comes 10 I push ( my stack was the pot size) lose to AK3rd- I raise get 5 callers ..YES 5!... flop comes 774..good flop right? no.. I lose to A7 sooted. Id recommend pushing. it works, ( I wouldnt recommend ks pushing though, by not pushing preflop you'll learn how to pay aces when you move up limits)oh, and PS.. like the old avatar better smash.

[21gambit]

Only works in lower games unless youre playing with rich fish throwing cash around unless there are a few key situations. Your in late position and everyone limps, pushing looks like a steal, someone with 10s or better soemtimes calls hoping your going with AK. Limping in early at a table where raises pre are the norm then pushing.With kings I think its a bonehead move, youll usually only get called by aces, sometimes worse, not usually.so can anyone answer my question?

[TheIceman05]

21gambit said:

Only works in lower games unless youre playing with rich fish throwing cash around unless there are a few key situations. Your in late position and everyone limps, pushing looks like a steal, someone with 10s or better soemtimes calls hoping your going with AK. Limping in early at a table where raises pre are the norm then pushing.With kings I think its a bonehead move, youll usually only get called by aces, sometimes worse, not usually.so can anyone answer my question?

Hey pal.... I am really trying to answer it.Ice

[Smasharoo]

explain to me how you think you're going to make it more profitable than actually playing the hand well post flop.You *can't* play the hand well postflop.No one can. No visability.You're going to pay off hands that flop big that you offered correct odds to call pre-flop and you're going to let people outplay you a lot, possibly completely by mistake. When the flop comes J37 rainbow and they push, what do you do?

[21gambit]

Learn how to play kings?!?!?!come on, can someone just talk about bet sizes. I play in a bigger game than .25-.5

[allinbluff35]

Smasharoo said:

explain to me how you think you're going to make it more profitable than actually playing the hand well post flop.You *can't* play the hand well postflop.No one can. No visability.You're going to pay off hands that flop big that you offered correct odds to call pre-flop and you're going to let people outplay you a lot, possibly completely by mistake. When the flop comes J37 rainbow and they push, what do you do?

what position am I in, did they limp in in EP, MP, LP, or were they in the blinds and called. How much is in the pot and how much is it call. There are so many factors that your little exercise is stupid.