reraise?

[mrdannyg 274]

should i reraise this river? he is representing (IMO) two pair, like 2J, 6J, 9J or some kind of backdoor straight. i doubt he would slowplay anything, given my initial read.Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is BB with J:heart:, 9:diamond:. [color:#666666]3 folds[/color], Hero checks.Flop: (4.50 SB) 2:spade:, 6:club:, 9:heart: [color:#0000FF](4 players)[/color][color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Button calls.Turn: (3.75 BB) T:club: [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color][color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], MP1 folds, Button calls.River: (5.75 BB) J:spade: [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color][color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], Hero calls.Final Pot: 9.75 BBp.s. look at that flop again. what a call! on the turn too its a shit call but whatever that's how things have been going lately and this guy was clearly giving his money away... i just couldn't take it

[Absolute 0]

3bet the river

[cdddc75 0]

Pretty easy threebet. Your only serious worries at JT and KQ. I don't think he's got either of those.

[mrdannyg 274]

sorry, meant to post results. they shouldn't change people's answers, since his cards are so stupid that he clearly has his head up his butt. i didn't have this read on him since i was only at the table for 8 hands or so before this, so people should assume what i was assuming, which was that he was a normal player.he had 8Q, for the runner-runner gutshot but obviously that wasn't a consideration

[cdddc75 0]

sorry, meant to post results.  they shouldn't change people's answers, since his cards are so stupid that he clearly has his head up his butt.  i didn't have this read on him since i was only at the table for 8 hands or so before this, so people should assume what i was assuming, which was that he was a normal player.he had 8Q, for the runner-runner gutshot but obviously that wasn't a consideration

It was a good thing you didn't post results right away.Trust me on this.Guess you were right to trust him waking up out of nowhere as a bad sign.

[Absolute 0]

sucks you got riveredthree bet it next time please.

[Smasharoo 0]

Pretty easy threebet. Your only serious worries at JT and KQ78, 22, 66, 99.I really wish people would stop advising people to three-bet rivers with two pair on boards like this.It's assanine.Betting or raising a river for value is one thing, three-betting this is near brain-dead.What's raising that you beat *2/3 of the time* ?

[princeof56k 0]

she had 8Q, for the runner-runner gutshot but obviously that wasn't a consideration

Man that sucks. Was he suited or something? Even then that was a very loose call by him on the flop. But he did luck out on the turn by having a double gutshot for some weak straights (either a 7 or J would give him the straight).

[princeof56k 0]

I really wish people would stop advising people to three-bet rivers with two pair on boards like this.

Two pair is a hand I've had a problem with on the river. I usually will raise once with it, but I very rarely 3-bet it. Is that a big leak?So Smash, on what type of boards would you 3-bet the river with two pair? Yea I know thats a really open ended question but I thought I would ask anyways. And is your comment about the board in the hand because there is 3 to a straight out there?

[Absolute 0]

22, 66, and 99 are not happening here.that being said you still might no be ahead 2/3 of the time.but dont factor in hands that are hardly ever happening here.

[Smasharoo 0]

Hi.22 66 and 99 plat exactly like this.

[DKE_XP120 0]

Hi.22 66 and 99 plat exactly like this.

Why are they waiting until the river?

[Petoria 0]

3 betting the river with a non-top two pair is usually not +EV unless you're up against a maniac, and a maniac throws crazy raises on the flop and turn. Smash is right, theres no point attacking it that hard with that many ddraws out there.

[avsfan 0]

I never respond to your post because of those annoying tags and number thingies. I try but it makes my eyes hurt and brain shudder.

[DKE_XP120 0]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is BB with J:heart:, 9:diamond:. 3 folds, Hero checks.Flop: (4.50 SB) 2:spade:, 6:club:, 9:heart: (4 players)Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Button calls.Turn: (3.75 BB) T:club: (3 players)Hero bets, MP1 folds, Button calls.River: (5.75 BB) J:spade: (2 players)Hero bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 9.75 BB

[Smasharoo 0]

Why are they waiting until the river?Because there's more money in it?Why would they raise the turn heads up when you could be betting iinto with junk and they're in position?

[oreogod 0]

Pretty easy threebet. Your only serious worries at JT and KQ78, 22, 66, 99.I really wish people would stop advising people to three-bet rivers with two pair on boards like this.It's assanine.Betting or raising a river for value is one thing, three-betting this is near brain-dead.What's raising that you beat *2/3 of the time* ?

I completely agree. Being agressive is one thing....smart tailored aggression is another. Three betting this sucks.Im surprised you guys are asking why he would wait to raise the river, when its one of the most basic lines somebody can take.You have a strong hand, your opponent has a weaker hand than yours...and hes betting into you. If u raise the turn, he's liable to fold. So you call, call, raise. While a turn raise allows him to get away from his hand easier, a river raise does not. Over aggressiveness is something I have been arguing about on 2+2 for awhile. Its usually why the only forum on 2+2 I read is the mid-high stakes threads. Much better advice is given there, probably because of their experience.

[mrdannyg 274]

damn. lately i've been agreeing with smash way too often.didn't notice the guy actually had a double gutshot on the turn, so that makes his call a bit more reasonable. he wasn't suited or anything, the call on the flop was "assanine."i think you don't 3-bet this river for several reasons. mainly, there are very few hands i am beating, and given that this is 2/4, he is likely slow-playing, meaning i'll get reraised.so a 3-bet opens myself up to a cap, and also contributes to the rake. i have to be winning well over 50% (smash said 2/3 - don't know where he got this, but it actually seems a little low IMO) for a reraise to be profitable.in answer to the other poster, if you have a set, i think you consider a 3-bet depending on how high it is and your opponent. he could only have hit a gutshot straight , runner-runner straight or slowplayed something, so you can make your decision based on that.3-betting out of position is a poor EV play, for 3 reasons.1. you are contributing to the rake. if it is heads-up you are raising $4 to win $3.20.2. you give him the opportunity to reraise. if he has hit a hand here, it is likely a straight. given my betting, the best hand i could have is the low straight, so i open myself to getting reraised.3. if he reraises, i do not have the opportunity to reraise. this is a problem when you are leading the betting out of position. if we both make strong hands, he has the last decision. if he is a crazy player, or i have the nuts, i want to have the opportunity to reraise him if he reraises me. since i am out of position i do not have this option.thanks to the posters. i didn't 3-bet and pretty much never would. i asked the question since the river made me 2 pair also, and so i was beating several of the hands he could have, which is unusual since usually if i am betting out i'm not looking to have my hand improved. also many of the players on this forum i respect have promoted being more aggressive late in hands than i tend to be.cheers!daniel

[oreogod 0]

Smash, quick question.How long did it take u to hit 1000 on your PS project?Im doing something like that myself. (I usually play 15/30 and up). Thought I would give it a try myself.

[avsfan 0]

I would generally call that river. funny thing is I felt goofball had an overcard or two and a gut shot draw on the turn.But if I feel right about the player I can reraise those rivers. Hey DKE_120 Thank you very much for reposting the hand....very coool :-)

[DKE_XP120 0]

1. you are contributing to the rake. if it is heads-up you are raising $4 to win $3.20.

Are you saying you dont raise on questionable rivers because of a rake?

Hey DKE_120 Thank you very much for reposting the hand....very coool

I do what i can..... just change the :# to =#

[oreogod 0]

1. you are contributing to the rake. if it is heads-up you are raising $4 to win $3.20.

Are you saying you dont raise on questionable rivers because of a rake?

I looked at this post and I was like:Rake is one of the last things Im thinking about when deciding if I should be re-raising this hand.

[Absolute 0]

Hi.22 66 and 99 plat exactly like this.

Hi.No they don't.

[Smasharoo 0]

Smash, quick question.How long did it take u to hit 1000 on your PS project? About 5 hours.Oh wait that was the ultra soft Party 5/10 game tonight.Um...couple of months I'd say. 40 sessions or so.

[cdddc75 0]

Why are they waiting until the river?Because there's more money in it?Why would they raise the turn heads up when you could be betting iinto with junk and they're in position?

Good point. They can still slowplay the turn as a trap since they are either way ahead with a set or crushed by your turned straight.